Catholic School - has anyone got in 'as a Catholic' despite not going the set amount?

[ASecretLemonadeDrinker]

I sent off my application months ago, and today got the Supplementary section to be signed by the Priest to confirm I have been to Church at least once a fornight in the past 12m - which I haven't (too long/irrelevant IMHO to post here). It then says if I do not do this my child will be catagory 10 (all other Children) DH is ringing the 2 schools now, but has anyone been in this situation before? Did you get classed as non-Catholic, or did you have to 'prove' your Catholic-ness ? Or did the school trust the word of an adult enough, that if they say they are Catholic then they are and are not part of some movement to take over Catholic schools

I'm not sure I understand. Did you not fill out the supplementary form to be signed by the priest to hand in to the school when you submitted your application? And did you not also have to submit your childs baptism certificate? Faith schools have varying degrees of supplementary information that applicants are required to produce to gain further preference if a school is over-subscribed. Some schools take into consideration the age of the child when it was baptised and regular attendance to church (i know of people that had to sign a register of attendance at Mass). But you should have been aware of this when you submitted the application. Were you not? If your child is baptised (and I assuming that they are if you categorise them as a catholic) but you are not able to provide proof of regular attendance in the past 12 months then your child will fall in to the category of 'All other baptised catholic children'.

Check the admissions criteria for each school, it will state clearly what the policy is.

Some Catholic schools just ask that the child is baptised a Catholic, but most (in my area at least) state the family must be a practising Catholic by that they mean attending Mass.

If you do not attend church, you may be able to get your priest to write a supporting reference stating why not, but I would not hold out much hope of getting in if the school is oversubscribed.

Sorry - not much help. You could also see if the schools publish their intake numbers from previous years to see how many children got a place in each category last year.

No form with the application - I tried to chase down what I had to do (incase there was something) and then presumed they contact you for whatever they needed - which they did, today, and it needs to be all back by Friday Ds is baptised, I have gone to church all my life, I am Catholic just don't tick their box. One school has said DS will be catagory 10 (behind even children of other faiths) , the other hasn't said but after "baptised Catholics living in the parish" (which needs the mass every 2 weeks for 12m), the next relevant catagory is 7 which is non baptised children with at least one catholic parent, but he is baptised... (but it's the highest one that doesnt require the 2 week/12m thing , having a sibling at the school, or looked after).

Anyone can baptise their baby, then turn up once a fornight, toddler in tow for a year - I am totally failing to see how that is Catholisism, full stop. I just don't want to go down the route of "explaining myself", I know my reasons and they are personal and am so upset that I am less Catholic than someone with 45 mins to spare on a Sunday morning

Depends where you are. My son attends a Catholic school but I am not Catholic and don't attend church. My DS was accepted when we moved here because they had a space. I chose the school because all my nieces attended there (also non-Catholic) and my sister said she was happy with the support they'd had.

Is the school very over-subscribed?

But it's not about "having 45 minutes to spare on a Sunday morning". Attending Mass is not an optional extra in Catholicism. Now I know that being a Catholic is a cultural thing too, and I am actually a very bad catholic myself, but if the criteria are faith-based, then attending Mass - an obligation for Catholics - is not that unreasonable, is it?

Attending Mass is our obligation as Catholics though.

All Catholics, once they have reached the age of reason, are bound under serious sin to be present at the whole of Mass every Sunday and on every Holy Day of Obligation. Deliberately to miss Mass on a Sunday or a Holy Day of Obligation is a serious sin which is forgiven in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. The obligation to be present at the whole of Mass on Sunday and Holy Days of Obligation ceases where there is personal illness, when one has to care for a sick or frail person, and when one is impeded, e.g., by travelling.

You don't need to explain to us what your reasons are for missing Mass, but I would have thought that it would be reasonable to assume that you would have to explain to your Priest.

Opps, cross post with TFM

I am actually considering going back to church and attending Mass. It's dfficult with DS as he has attention and concentration difficulties so sitting still is not easy for him. They do have a Sunday school though but DS will not go into it without me.

Sorry - just realised I did a bit of a thread hijack there.

Could you have a heart to heart with the priest? Along the lines that you consider yourself Catholic, and obviously want your children to be educated in the tenets of the faith as you deem this very important.

See what he says.

To the OP - this is an interesting question... firstly should say I'm not catholic I'm jewish. recently JFS (jewish secondary school in NW London) lost a case in the supreme court - basically were admitting children based on then being jewish rather than on being practising jewish (ie synagogue attendance) - they lost as this was considered to be racist (ie being jewish on basis of mother being jewish) now all jewish schools forced to require synagogue attendance (or some other measure of practise perhaps) as a criteria for school admissions. the case was very recent. basically what i am trying to say is that faith schools now legally don't have a choice, Ed Balls et al as well as the courts have confirmed that religion (for the purposes of state schools anyway) is based on religious practise which the catholic schools seem to have defined as regular mass attendance.

I think that's a bit different, though, as it hinged on admission being based on a genetic link to Judaism via a child's mother - which was deemed to be racial discrimination.
I don't think any catholic schools make judgements based on biological lineage!

I would talk to your priest and explain, I am sure they will be sympathetic to your situation. If you just fill in the form saying you do not attend regular mass I would think you would be unlikely to get a place (if the school is oversubscribed that is). You really will need a supporting reference from your priest.

Your question 'Does attending mass for 45 minutes on a Sunday make someone a better catholic?'. When we attend mass regularly we are actively supporting our parish community (in spirit and in monetary offerings! ) and so it is a very important part of our faith. There have been times throughout my life when I have lapsed away from the church and then returned and have always felt welcomed back. Regular attendance as a family is required to keep the faith going from generation to generation.

Good luck with the application.

Blu - perhaps different but posted as the OP said they gave some sort of priority to a child with a catholic parents - presumably now thats an illegal policy?

why don't you just say "yes i go to church at least every 2 weeks"? you don't have to always go to the same church do you? you might go with an elderly aunt in another parish from time to time, or switch around due to mass times.
is there a register or some other proof? i doubt it.

The priest has to confirm regular attendance.

There actually is a register and proof required. I am a practising Catholic, we go to mass every week and are very involved in the church. However, I will still have to sign the register every week to prove it and the nun who is the school liaison knows damn well who is there every week and who is playing it for school entry. So sorry, if you don't meet the criteria you haven't much hope if it's a popular school. As has been said, going to mass is key and if you haven't been doing that then it doesn't say much for your dedication. All the families who can 'spare 45 minutes a week' will be ahead of you in the queue.

Have you considered that the people ahead of you on the waiting list are not just people who have "45 minutes to spare on a Sunday" but are actually committed Catholics who see this 45 minutes as just a part of their obligation? We attend church on Sunday, not because we have nothing better to do or because we need to go for school admission, but because we actually want to go and pray with our Church community, we also support the church in other ways, singing in the choir, helping with St Vincent de Paul etc. The OP makes it sound as if everyone on the waiting list is some kind of fraud who just plays the game better than her!

Really Rockbird? There's a Mass register?

I go to mass, but am not sure whether I want DD and DS to go to the school. We just go to mass and there isn't any register, although the parish priest is very observant

In any case, would have thought that other activities such as going to confession as equally the cornerstone of the faith.

I am a committed Catholic and I had to stop going to Mass. I have a child with ASD that could not cope with sitting still for an hour and would become very very distressed and on occasions would turn violent

We are able to attend Mass now, some years later, but even now I have difficulties as child makes odd noises when stressed and can still have all out meltdowns which means I have to carry her out kicking and screaming and she is a big girl. The priest who baptised her has been very very understanding with her but he is leaving soon

Yes, I understand that there is a Sunday obligation (think most Holy days have since been scrapped) but at the same time there is a dispensation for parents of young children/sick people etc.

We did not attend Mass for Primary school admissions as it was way beyond her capabilties and at the time we didn't have a diagnosis - only one Paediatrician involved at that time. We did get a Catholic school as it was important to us but it has meant travelling quite some distance (3 parishes away) to be able to get one (catholics are advised against using parish school by diocese as they won't get catholic high school - so non-catholics use that school and catholics have to move and find others!) The school we are at is fantastic and does really lovely appropriate liturgies with the children. All catholics get a place, even out of parish and some non-Catholics. In our local authority, a certificate of baptism was the evidence to prove you were a Catholic child. Schools that were really really oversubscribed held a lottery, which did mean that some children did not get a place in their chosen school.

As regards the sacrament of Reconciliation, I understand we are obliged to go once each year. However, the Church does not lay on a creche! So I was unable to go until my child actually started school. So glad there wasn't a confessions register!!!

Not attending Mass doesn't necessarily imply that you don't have time or effort. It is central to our faith though and being away from the Church for a long time has been a huge challenge.

If the school's admission policies state you need to attend mass regularly, then that's it - you'll have to go on the waiting list behind all the parents that do do that. Doesn't make it right, doesn't make anyone necessarily more Catholic, but if that is their criteria and school is oversubscribed, then there isn't anything you can do about it - they need some way to determine who gets admitted. Didn't you know the admission criteria when you applied?

I am not saying that mass isn't important, but anyone can do that IMO. I understand I have to go (not for the school thing) and try my very very best when I can. But I would even rather they did further checks, it almost doesn't seem enough in a way. As I said I have been to Church all my life (sadly not this Parish and my 'old' priest has passed away), went to Catholic school a few towns across (with people who attended these schools too - only Catholic secondary in area), and I just think it's so insulting actually that for one year out of a whole life you have to go fornightly - great if maybe you are new to the faith, or if you go anyway but you cannot say people do not abuse this knowledge to get into a good school? When I go, the (soundproof! ) room is full of 3-4 year olds. There is a handful of 5+. That is what is upsetting me. DH is talking to the Priest today.

i know where you're coming from ASLD - glad your dh is talking to the priest. I am sure he will sign the form and support your application, they are actually far more human in reality than most people think and can see through the "game playing" that goes on.

my friend is catholic bu doesn't go to church but wanted his daughter to go to a catholic secondary school. (he is divorced and his dd lives with her mum, who is not catholic). He spoke to the priest and told him that he no longer goes to mass but still wanted his daughter to be educated in a catholic school and to give her some exposure, to give her a chance to be a catholic. the priest was v v v v supportive and she got in. He has actually since remarried, a Catholic, and they are at mass every sunday having reconciled whatever issue it was he had. Priests do know how life is.