Catholic School - has anyone got in 'as a Catholic' despite not going the set amount?

[ASecretLemonadeDrinker]

I sent off my application months ago, and today got the Supplementary section to be signed by the Priest to confirm I have been to Church at least once a fornight in the past 12m - which I haven't (too long/irrelevant IMHO to post here). It then says if I do not do this my child will be catagory 10 (all other Children) DH is ringing the 2 schools now, but has anyone been in this situation before? Did you get classed as non-Catholic, or did you have to 'prove' your Catholic-ness ? Or did the school trust the word of an adult enough, that if they say they are Catholic then they are and are not part of some movement to take over Catholic schools

As a practising catholic I find the whole idea of signing a register at mass hideous. It just seems so wrong and surely we should be more compassionate to people and understand that there may be reasons why they haven't attended mass.

I'm a governor at a catholic primary school and children need a priest's letter to be in the first category for admission but the priest is an intelligent man who understands that there are lots of reasons why people don't always practice their faith with regular churchgoing.

Thanks. I just cannot imagine DS not going to a Catholic school, I am not quite sure what I would do if he doesn't get into one of the two I was gutted when my no.1 choice (he attends nursery there and they already mix 4 year olds with the reception class of the school) went top of the local 'table'. If I was going to fiddle him into a good school I'd have put 2nd choice as either the excellent one walking distance from me (but is C of E) or the other great one next to my mums house and pretended I lived there. Option 2 has lept down the tables so hopefully they can see it's only the Catholic part I am 'after', not just the 'best' school in the town. I am so worried I have given myself a nose bleed

Not all religious faith schools require only attendance though. Catholic schools have got more stringent requirements (well, at least in my area).

For the Nursery/Primary schools: parents are required to demonstrate that they are practising catholics, (i.e. provide evidence of their baptism, 1st holy communion and confirmation certificates).The kid(s) must be baptised before they reach 1yr old - otherwise questions are asked and it looks a bit "iffy"

It gets even more difficult when applying for the secondary school: Parents must provide evidence that:

1. The child is currently attending the local catholic primary school
2. The child has received their 1st Holy Communion (certificate reqd),
3. Parents and child attend mass regularly (parish priest to confirm)and
4. Parents need to prove that they and their dc participate fully in their parish activities!
5. Oh, and the child and parents MUST live in the catchment area

These are all fine for genuine practising catholic parents - wouldn't this be a lot of hassle for those pretending to be catholics?

Despite all of the above, there were nearly 900 applicants for 150 places! An average of 6 applicants per place

IMO, I think it's the government's responsibility to ensure that all state schools (nursery/primary/secondary) are of such good standards that parents won't have to lie/fake addresses/ religion to get into good schools of their choice .

Anyway, that's me and rant over!

i'm with webwiz
no "register" at my church either.
(and a very very very oversubscribed school)

There is no register at our church either. And the school is over-subscribed. However my friend does have to sign a register when they attend Mass.

ASecretLemonadeDrinker: I am sorry that you are having to go through all this. I wouldn't wish the stress of finding a decent school for your children on anyone. But I can't help thinking that you didn't investigate fully what the admissions criteria was for the school you applied for. The information is readily available, it's not a secret! All you needed to do was to contact the school in question. As parents we owe it to our children to be fully equipped with the facts and it seems that you almost expected the school/LEA to do it for you.

I hope it works out okay for you and your DH manages to convince the priest.

I do have sympathy for the OP.

If she grew up Catholic, and over her lifetime did follow the faith, it must be frustrating that the past year is what's being looked at, rather than an overall view.

And the fact of the matter is that there are a lot of people who know how to 'play the system' and know that they will need to attend mass for 12 months, rather than a person who grew up in the faith, but for whatever reason, hasn't attended mass lately.

me too. why didn't you go with dh today? i think a united front would have more sway with the priest imo.

I knew that it was something like this, but would not have made a difference to my attendance - I don't go to get into a school. DH is at work and is ringing the Priest, I am at home 'resting' with a 3 and 18 month old

And I think I would avoid signing a register anyway, out of principle, if it was just to do with getting into a school. If it's for church records, fair enough though. I do agree totally with whoever said that all schools should be the same really - then people can just go to their nearest, or nearest faith and it would all work out.

ASLD - you would be prepared to pretend to live somewhere you don't in order to get into a community school, but don't see the need to prove your own credentials to get into a catholic school?

Talk to the priest and explain your absence over the last year.
And there must be someone from your old church who could vouch for you?

Nooo, I was saying , IF I was that type of person I'd be doing the hoodwinking to get into the other top schools too, not going out of my way to try and get into one that's 2/3 of the way down the tables (2nd choice - the other Catholic School). I have people who can 'vouch' for me, just don't want to go down that route, as I said, it's insulting. DH has spoken to the Fr. and is seeing him after work - he's a really nice guy so hopefully there is room for individual cases and it's not totally black and white.

You seem almost at pains to cut off your nose to spite your face. You say in a previous post that you would avoid signing a register out of principle. So even if you had been going for the required amount in the past 12 months you wouldn't have signed the register? I'm sorry but quite frankly that is ridiculous. Either you want your child to go to the school or you don't. Making a stand and, in the process, scuppering any chances of your child going to your preferred catholic school out of some misguided sense of morality doesn't make you a better catholic. It just makes you a silly one.

As for your views on someone vouching for you being insulting, is your DH having to go plead and beg your case to the parish priest any less so?

If you don't want people to vouch for you, how on earth do you expect the school to accept you are a serious catholic that intends to bring your children up in the faith? They can't possibly just take your word for it, otherwise all those other people you mentioned who go to mass for a year simply to get a school place wouldn't bother, they would just ring up the priest and say, oh yes, we're practising, and the school wouldn't be able to differentiate between them and you!

It's not a great system, I think we all agree, but the school has to have something that is easy to measure and track - they can't possibly go around interviewing the parish priests from 5 years back for all applicants or anything.

I find it hard to believe that if a catholic education is so important to you that you didn't find out about the admission criteria when you applied months ago. You'd still have the same issue but you would have had months to talk to the priest and explain things.

I knew somewhat of the criteria but I have been totally unable to go to Mass. Yes, I know I would probably cut my nose off to spite my face but I am feeling grumpy and miserable and the whole thing is getting to me. Sad world we live in that everyone is treated as liar unless proved otherwise (WRT just saying you are Catholic). If I was able to go wth DH, I would

Sorry, SLD, I misunderstood you.
It sounds as if you are having a v bad time generally. And I sympathise re your principles of not needing proof etc.
But there's no way round it really is there?

UNLESS - perhaps - faith schools just run exactly the same criteria that other state fiunded schools run - siblings, proximity etc.

I hope the priest is understanding and it is all sorted out for you.

I find the register insulting as well. They know us very well there, my brother is on the committee, we do teas and coffees after mass every week, we're well known. But as long as non Catholics (and this is not about the op btw) will try to get into Catholic schools then this is what we are forced to do. DD is only just 2, she would be going to the school in Sept 2012 and we are having to sign the register already. The school is a very good one and very oversubscribed.

I don't know what you do in the case that a pp poster raised regarding a child with special needs and attendance. I guess the priest would hopefully be aware of such issues and make some sensible allowances, at least I'd hope so. The strict rules are for the masses (ho ho).

I will prove it if needs be, obviously I won't be stubborn enough to send to regular school or move

You say that anyone could get their child baptised and attend church regularly for a year so what is it that you do or are that is more exclusive than those who can do those things?

I'm not Catholic so I'm wondering if there is some scale of how Catholic someone is regardless of attendance at mass.

Erm, not so much how Catholic you are as your reasons for being Catholic. If you've suddenly appeared in the run up to school starting you're either a very recent convert or you like the look of the school. Chances are if you've been around a bit longer you are Catholic because you want to be Catholic.

It's a bit more difficult than you make out to convert- it takes around a year of catechism classes and lots of deep discussion and Mass attendence. I would be if someone converted to get their children into a good school. You would have to be an incredible actor also.

I don't think it's all that unusual for parents to rediscover their faith when children are small. It isn't just about getting into a good school, but the realization that one's faith should be passed on, maybe for religious reasons, and maybe to be part of a larger community.

No no I don't mean converting to get into the school, I was just musing on why someone would only recently have started appearing at the church and that was one reason, along with having moved house of course. I know people go to some lengths but conversion is a bit of a step too far I think

oh, ISWYM! Yes, think it would definitely be extreme. The other school would have to be dreadful.

I agree ilovemydog. My brother said it was only when he had his now 7yo dd that he began to think back over the upbringing he'd had and mass and the church was a big part of that.