advise needed about yr 1 non-reading - long post sorry

[kdk]

Hi, hoping any primary school teachers - or anyone with any experience - can offer me any advice on what to do about my dd. She is five and a twin (not sure if really matters ...) and is in yr 1.

When she was at nursery, she could say her alphabet and seemed to 'recognise' most of the letters ie could see an A and say a - if that makes sense. However, in the past year and a bit, she seems to have made no progress at all, in fact, she seems to have regressed if anything. She is still on pink/red reading books (she was on these in reception and has never moved off them) and I am getting very concerned that she firstly does not seem to recognise all the letters of the alphabet and also seems to not have any idea of sound/letter corrolation (if that makes sense). She also has almost no sight words at all. She can read and write her own name but that seems to be about it.

I'm just getting concerned that if she continues to not progess at all, a) she will go into yr 2, pretty much unable to read and b) she now refers to herself as 'stupid' and 'rubbish' at reading. This is probably compounded by the fact that her twin brother is now on purple level books and much as I (try not to) don't compare them, they obviously compare themselves.

I've arranged to see her teacher next week but what should I be asking - do I ask for her to do reading recovery/get her tutored/ just leave it?

Any advice/ideas gratefully received ...

Bumping for you. No advice, sorry, but obviously you are right to be concerned if you are doing the same things with each twin reading-wise, and one is outstripping the other. Good luck x

Bumping in the hope that any teachers/knowledgeable mumsnetters may be around this weekend ...

kdk bumping again for you! When are you due to see the teacher? My dd really struggled with reading in reception/yr 1, she wasn't getting it at all and was very unconfident, just clammed up when we tried to listen to her read. How often do the school listen to her in class? We changed dd's school - her old one left her on reception level books and only listened to her once a month, but her new one realise she's struggling and have been helping a lot. She is progressing slowly and will get there in the end, as I'm sure your dc will. Do they have a TA in class? dd's school seems to have more resource which has been a big help. Also, in yr 1 there should be some kind of scheme - I forget what it's called - for those who need extra help with phonics.

Ds (Y1) really struggled in reception with his reading , fortunately, his current teacher quickly realised that and put him on "phonics books" (I think they are also from ORT but not certain) so he was bringing back home both the regular ORT of his level (1 at the start of this schhol year) + the phonics ones. She would also at the end of each week give them all again 9the ones he had read at home +in school during the week) for the week end to go again on things he had difficulties on. It was a lot of extra work but it really did pay off. He is almost at the end of stage 3 (still a bit behind from the rest of his class but the change is phenomenal!).

I hope things will get easier for your DD and that the teacher will find the right thing for her.

, with a mother so good at typos, no wonder Ds is struggling with his reading!

This sounds a distressing situation to be in regarding the self-comparison amongst your twins.

In terms of reading, don't know what to say but hope that the meeting with the teacher goes well.

As for the twin thing, we have friends with twins and one is better at everything. (At least, everything that is measureable in a primary school environment).

They have decided to provide the twins with different activities so that the one who is always behind can have something of their own that they are better at.

My dd is able but lazy. She really didn't like learning to read. Her school used jolly phonics (IMO brilliant). At home we used sand on a tray to make the letters and make the noises, she had a set of cards with sandpaper on them to trace round too. I can't think of anything else to add, so hope your meeting goes well.
She is a brilliant reader now so I hope that it ends happily for you.

I can't give you much advice except get her off those pink / red reading books!. She must be bored witless by them. Is she reading the same ones over and over? Forget that she's not managing them -- can you boost her by giving her harder books and half reading them with her (word for her, word for you). Hope a teacher comes along soon. As a not teacher I think interest and confidence are half the battle, which I think is what you are saying too.

Just do please get her off those pink reading books.

Just thought of another thing we did. DD had very poor speech too, I used to make her watch the snowman (no words) and describe what was happening. We then got the book and I would encourage her to write the story down. It really didn't make sense in any way, but she did develop phonetic spelling which has led to pretty good 'real' spelling.

I've just re read that, when I say make she didn't need much encouragement to watch, the writing was harder. Raymond Briggs I think wrote it.

There are a number of things you can do here.
When you see the teacher, you might want to ask how often she is heard read and whether she is getting any extra support. The scheme that somebody else referred to could be Sound Discovery or ELS or Reading Recovery or Catchup (although I think the last 2 might be for Y2 children). The teacher should also be teaching phonics using the Letters and Sounds scheme. I you might like to ask where she is and what she's doing (the children should be in ability groups for this).

Aas for what you can do to help her, when they are learning to read chil;dren need to be heard as often as possible, so if you or another adult could hear her once or even twice a day, that should make a difference. Also getting her to enjoy books is vitally important, especially if she's starting to become put off by them. Do you go to the library? She might enjoy choosing books that you can share together. If you have time I would read to her too and let her see you reading! Perhaps you could encourage her to identify sounds ("Apple. Starts with a" etc). I think you can letters that float in the bath, which might be a fun way of getting her to practise letter sounds.

If you feel that both you and the school are doing all you can to help her but she's still not making progress, she might some targeted support, in which case arranging to see the Special Needs Co-ordinator at her school will be the way to go. This won't mean necessarily that she'll be on the list forever. Some children just need a bit more help in the early stages and some children are not really ready to read until they are a bit older. In my experience most have caught up by the time they are in Y5 and the ones that haven't have a specific learning difficulty which can usually be addressed with the right kind of help.

Hope this helps. Sorry it's a bit long - frustrated teacher currently on maternity leave!

I've just thought of something else! Lots of schools test the children to find out their reading ages. If your dd's school have used such a test, it should give you some indication of where she is in relation to her age.

If your dd hasn't made any progres in a year, then you and the class teacher need to be talking to the special needs co-ordinator about differentiation within the classroom, and additional support for your dd with regard to phonics (leading onto reading and writing).

Is your dd about to hear sounds in words? I mean, if you say the word "dog", is she able to tell you that is breaks down (segments) into d-o-g? Is she able to suggest words which start with a particular sound? Is she able to say how you change "map" into "mat" - ie. which sound needs to change?

This is a really important stage in learning to read. Next, she needs to be really secure in recognising and saying the sounds connected to letters.

It sounds like she needs to do lots and lots more phonic work - preferably a multisensory approach like jolly phonics or something similar.

Unless she is able to hear and say sounds in words, and recognise and say her sounds, she will not be able to blend letters into words. This is the bedrock of learning to read.

I think you need to speak to the teacher asap. Do you have information about the end of Foundation Stage assessments? You should have been given the scores in her Reception end of year report. These will give the Y1 teacher a baseline from which to measure her progress to date.

You have my sympathy. Ds (yr 1, 5.5 born prem) is the same. No real progress since nursery. Little bit but nowhere near the amount I would have expected and he is still on pink books. I insisted he was tested by the SENCO and he has been assessed as having a very poor visual sequential memory (significantly below his age despite his overall ability being that of a 9 yr old).

Asked in the SEN and Primary Education sections here but didn't get any response. According to my googling the VSM is needed for reading, spelling and copying from the board. Ds is okay at spelling but really rubbish at reading (no idea about copying from the board). I have a meeting this week with the SENCO to see what we do.

I am glad I insisted on the testing as I was getting fed up of seeing ds progress in other areas but not at all in reading. He spells out every single letter in his reading books even the non-phonetic stuff. He also cannot remember how to say a word even if it is in his book 20 times. I was told by both the reception and year 1 teachers that I shouldn't worry as they were sure it would click eventually. In the meantime I have watched his classmates go way ahead of him, even the ones who had done no reading prior to reception.

Hi all and thanks for your comments/suggestions.

Funnily enough my dd does seem able to do some sound recognition - she will say dog is spelt d - og - but not d - o -g (if that makes sense). I also feel that some of the problem is that her concentration skills are very poor.

Not sure how often she reads/is heard reading - something I will have to ask the teacher about. I'm also worried that they don't seem to be giving her books from one scheme - ie a phonics scheme where she might at least get confident about sounding words out - last week she was given a National Geographic (!!) red book called 'What's my job?' which had words like scissors and use - which I would have thought were not really possible to sound out? She does wear glasses for astigmatism so don't think it's a sight issue and she is pretty articulate with a good vocabulary ....

Ah well, will have to wait and see what her teacher suggests - but if anyone can add/think of questions I should ask, I'd be more than grateful ...

Sounds like you need structured decodable readers.

Read-Write Inc.
Jelly and Bean
Launchers - dandelion readers www.phonicbooks.co.uk - (disclosure my mum is a founder of this company).

All these books progress in a logical way and don't throw in ludicrous words like scissors!!

Try the first set of any of the above and see if you get anywhere (buy them with a friend if necesary)... I wish the library's stocked them.

When i was first teaching my daughter to read there were no decodable readers and I wrote my own books with our family in them. They certainly got her going. You could use the progression shown on Mums website to do this. You could even get the twins to help you draw the pictures.

I have started a project called "The storyboard project" where I am trying to get people to create free electronic phonic readers. Do come and help me there or at least give me ideas about how to progress!!
lisatweedie.wordpress.com/2010/01/29/storyboard-project-update-challenge-no-1/

Has She had her hearing tested for things like glue ear??
We found Dr Suess quite good.(early ones like fox in socks) My mum also used it to teach my brother to read after she got frustrated with his lack of progess at school. Ayear later he was reading anything. The other one I think are good are Ruth Miskins super phonics story books.

Oh yes and play and lots of games with her.

I just found the alphablocks ones on cbeebies which I think are great.

But you can also make your own.

d-og is a good start, but she needs to be able to break words down into their constituent parts.

Her phonic knowledge may be such that she doesn't yet know that "og" is not a sound, if you see what I mean.

What happens if you say d-o and then stop? Can she drop the final sound in?

Ds does the same but can break down some words when pressed. I would definitely get hearing and sight tested as a starter. Ds's was perfect for both. I am also told that ds's vocab is exceptional for his age (have been told this from a young age). In fact I got quite fed up with being told that by teachers as it seems to make not a jot of difference when it comes to reading.

I really recommend going back to learning letter sounds. Children have to know them off by heart at a glance to provide a solid foundation for the next step of blending.
I used ReadWrite Inc Phonics Flashcards - the synthetic phonic series by Ruth Miskin, published by Oxford Uni Press [have just run upstairs to find tattered box]. These flashcards have a picture on the back which follows the letter shape/sound - great for visual learners. They worked for dd1 and also dd2 who is partially deaf & has a language problem.
DD2 has just got over the d-og sounding out and has progressed to d-o-g (in her own time). That's what it's all about really - giving them time.

I would also recommend getting her Visual Perception assessed just to rule out any problems in this area. Perception is different to Vision as it is the brains interpretation of what we see. VP difficulties are common in prem babies.

Assessment is done using a standardised test that few schools have so you will probably need a referral to an Occupational Therapist.

Also just to add, I listen to readers in a Y1 class. About 6 of the 30 are on pink/red and only about 10 on purple or above. You are right to worry and I would be asking questions now if she were my dd but if she is a long way behind others in her class she might just be in an able class.

It could also be that she doesn't 'get' phonics...it's not really how mine learned to read.

How about getting some completely different books, from a completely different scheme that can't be compared with her twin.

Ladybird have reprinted their key words books (peter and Jane) and there is a lot more repetition in these than more modern reading books.

All kids can 'get' phonics . They just need to be taught it properly.

Builde - Please don't perpetuate the "look and say" myth. See this thread for a full discussion! www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/898665-Yet-another-reading-question

The reason we all liked Peter and Jane was that it had a structured progression i.e. you only came across words that you knew. This builds confidence. Mums phonic readers do the same with sounds. The lfirst evel book only has five sounds in it (s a m i t) ... the second those five + five more. This continues up through the whole phonic code. This builds confidence.... kids are taught each sound explicitly. They are never forced to read things that they do not have the skills to read.

Ruth Miskins books do the same thing - although unfortunately they start with the whole alphabet so are not necessarily great for very early reading (i think she suggests using work sheets before this0.

Jelly and Bean are also progressive.

Floppy Phonics (ORT) claim to be structured but are not really. I have been shocked by how many tricky words they put into the pink level. This has certainly knocked the confidence of my 4 year old.

I quite like the songbirds (also ORT) although they introduce a lot of words very quickly which my son is finding quite hard.

Confidence is central to learning to read.

What did the teacher advise?
The only thing I can think to add is keep reading to her yourself, using an entertaining variety of books that both your dc can enjoy hearing, so that she has some fun associations with the whole process and is not in competition with db in the process
Cbildren do seem to learn in surprising leaps ie seem to spend ages assimilating information, and suddenly they 'get it'
also try and incorporate mark making/letter recognition into informal activities
your best feedback has to be from the school