Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

advise needed about yr 1 non-reading - long post sorry

45 replies

kdk · 29/01/2010 20:30

Hi, hoping any primary school teachers - or anyone with any experience - can offer me any advice on what to do about my dd. She is five and a twin (not sure if really matters ...) and is in yr 1.

When she was at nursery, she could say her alphabet and seemed to 'recognise' most of the letters ie could see an A and say a - if that makes sense. However, in the past year and a bit, she seems to have made no progress at all, in fact, she seems to have regressed if anything. She is still on pink/red reading books (she was on these in reception and has never moved off them) and I am getting very concerned that she firstly does not seem to recognise all the letters of the alphabet and also seems to not have any idea of sound/letter corrolation (if that makes sense). She also has almost no sight words at all. She can read and write her own name but that seems to be about it.

I'm just getting concerned that if she continues to not progess at all, a) she will go into yr 2, pretty much unable to read and b) she now refers to herself as 'stupid' and 'rubbish' at reading. This is probably compounded by the fact that her twin brother is now on purple level books and much as I (try not to) don't compare them, they obviously compare themselves.

I've arranged to see her teacher next week but what should I be asking - do I ask for her to do reading recovery/get her tutored/ just leave it?

Any advice/ideas gratefully received ...

OP posts:
cazzybabs · 02/02/2010 21:18

schools did have some money to pay for 1:1 readers - I am not sure what happened to it as I work in the independent sector but it was big news in the TES about a year ago.

If your dd was in my class we would be starting ELS. Do they do a synthetic phonics programme (jolly phonics etc). You need to stop reading and practise practise practise the sounds. Then get her to word build simple phonic words - cat, dog, sat - model them for her.There are plenty of decodable phonic books out there.

Some children get reading and a few, like your dd, don't. they are not ready YET. I am sure she will get there.

Tell the teacher you are worried and ask her what plans she has in place. Is she getting extra support? Does she think she any problems? I would push it because reading opens so many doors but only with the teacher and not with your dd. Continue to read books to her and let her see you read.

kdk · 02/02/2010 21:36

@ ninah - not seen her teacher yet - seeing her on Friday and will take lots of these points/concerns to her especially about what plans she has and whether she can be put on a purely phonic-based reading scheme.

I do read to her and she enjoys looking at books and I'll continue to do so.

Thanks to everyone for their helpful comments and suggestions - you've made me feel a lot more hopeful!

OP posts:
daytoday · 02/02/2010 22:07

What about a tutor? My son struggled badly in year 1 for lots of reasons. By the end of easter I was incredibly worried about him. The anxiety was overwhelming. I tried to work with the teacher - but turns out his teacher was rubbish - she was having a breakdown.

But anyway, this is what I did about it - rather than battle the school - I rolled up my sleeves and went to work.

He started with Kip McGrath (tutoring) at the start of Year 2, going once a week. They went back to the beginning of the curriculum, filled in the gaps, including teaching him how to hold a pencil properly!! The tutor was amazing and lovely and I found his advice such a help.

I also went to the library and got out phonic books. It was very boring - but every night I insisted he read for 10 mins. Every night apart from Friday and Saturday. So I knew exactly what he could and couldn't do.

Then I took the books he was reading with me to the school to show them. His Year 2 teachers was amazing and together we realised he was not performing in class. It was a confidence issue. So then we worked on that.

By middway through Year 2 it started to click. He got his mojo back. Now he is in Year 3 - his reading is amazing. He is confident and doesn't struggle. He finds learning new things hard - but he now understands that he will get it if he keeps trying. He is a grafter.

What made me take action young? Well I listened to friends who had 9 years olds who were still struggling with reading and hated school because of it. Also they were harder to get back on board, refused to go to tutors, much more sensitive to their own identity and peer pressure issues.. I wanted to nip it in the bud. I am so glad I did.

We stopped the tutor after a year -

lisata · 03/02/2010 09:46

daytoday - what a fab post. Thanks for sharing your story. Confidence is absolutely key. I've gradually learnt after 10 years of nursery schools and primary schools that it is far better to jump in when you sense your child is unhappy or struggling. It seems a lot of teachers haven't been given the skills to support kids who are reluctant readers.

The OU has just started a great course for teaching phonics that one can do from home. It costs about 300 quid and is aimed at TA's, parents and teachers (you don't need to be a teacher to do it). It was designed by Sounds-Write who have a fantastic reputation in this area. I am thinking about doing it myself.

cazzybabs - there has been some money for a program called reading recovery ... but from what I have heard it has not been implemented very well and very little training given.

Littlefish · 03/02/2010 10:50

cazzybabs - there is money available for 1 to 1 tuition, but it is aimed at KS2 children.

Builde · 03/02/2010 15:19

Lisata - ok, all kids can 'get' phonics but for some children it doesn't seem that important (other than for spelling). By dd pretty much by-passed it all and just learned to read by word recog. She never sounds anything out, she just 'knows' the word or makes an intelligent guess. And the older she gets, the more likely she is to know the word.

(Actually, I have no idea how she learned to read because it just sort of happened. Jelly and Bean to the BFG in a year)

I was really only suggesting getting books that are completely different to anything that would be found in school so that a) there would be not opportunity for comparison with twin and b) that they would be different and therefore 'novel' and not feel like extra homework.

And, the Peter and Jane books have a lot more repetition than modern reading books and therefore I would imagine would give struggling reader confidence. Plus the pictures are so evocative....

I don't know any of the education theories and only know my own children, but is there anything wrong with 'look and say'. (What is look and say?) After, all, as adults, we read by recognising the shape of a word. We never (or I never) actually pronounce any words to myself when I read. Which generally means that - after finishing a foreign novel - I wouldn't be able to tell you what any of the characters were called.

So, I find it hard to believe that 'look and say' is a myth for all children.

Builde · 03/02/2010 15:24

''ALL kids can learn to read via phonics - only small percentage have very good visual memory and can learn automatically. The kids who learn this way are actually learning the phonic code but the work it out for themselves (as I understand it we can only remember the shape of about 2000 words). This is why some kids who start out learning to read fine via whole word reading suddenly start to struggle at the age of 7 because they have reached the limit of the number of words they can remember and they haven't worked out any other strategies for themselves.''

Lisata, reading your text above, I would imagine that my dd is one of the good visual memory people.

Let's hope she doesn't have problems when she is 7! (she is 5 1/2 now)

gonnabehappy · 03/02/2010 15:34

Not a teacher, but my middle lad could not read/write in Year Two. Our main strategy was to keep him interested in books comics etc. That did involve not using the official school ones much!

He is now in Year 8 and while he hates school (it is the sitting down he hates!) he reads huge amounts, and very well.

Sorry think you had excellent advice from teachers here just wanted to say from a mum's point of view try not to worry too much! That does not mean don't ask for help it just means there seem to be some children who just don't get it in infant school but later excel.

lisata · 03/02/2010 22:17

Builde

Sorry if I flamed you ... I just do have real problem with look and say. I was very like your daughter learnt to read at the age of 3 via look and say. Atrocious speller - it took me until adulthood to sort it out (if i have!).

Actually I got my mum to explain the whole value of synthetic phonics on another thread (she does it much better than me being and expert!!) here is what she said:

"One barely needs to teach the children who have good visual memory and can teach themselves the phonic code. I had one of those as a daughter (me - Lisa).

There are jails full of young people who are non readers, because they were not given the skills to break words up into syllables and sounds. Children who can read analytically (like Lisa) benefit from having the code explained to them (i.e. synthetic phonics), especially for spelling. The others make steady progress with phonics, and slowly gain automaticity with reading.

Children who are taught analytically (i.e. via look and say), but do not have good visual memory resort to guessing. That is fine with lovely books full of explicit illustrations, but what happens when they are faced with a page full of text with minimal illustration? Guessing does not help, and they give up.

I am a SpLD teacher, and have helped countless children through phonics.

Some children with good visual memory make good progress with reading until they are 7. Then you get the year three dip. Why? Because those children have not worked out the phonic code, and their visual memory can only remember so many words. Their self esteem becomes very poor, and they stop trying. If they had had the phonic code explained to them from the beginning, they would be reading."

The point is that the mixed method of reading which has been used in schools over the last decade has focused on look and say, repetion and context based clues. All of these encourage guessing which is a very poor strategy for reading. Most of the reluctant readers my mum has taught are guessers with very low confidence.

A properly structured reading scheme builds confidence because you never expect a child to read a word that they haven't been taught the code for. You don't expect them to run before they can walk. Of course as parents we know that some kids learn to walk and run in the same week. They are the special ones. We can't base our reading strategies on them!

In many ways spelling is an often overlooked issue here. I do believe that if it is well taught phonics can really help all our kids become good spellers and that is also a key skill.

Lisa

Builde · 04/02/2010 16:39

Lisata, I wasn't massively inflamed. And, as I said, I only know about my own children.

However, on the subject of phonics, how about this for a spelling...

'stifuckt'

It took me a while to work out what my dd was trying to spell and concluded that it was 'certificate'!

lisata · 04/02/2010 16:53

Builde
That made me giggle.

Funny I went in to read today with a group of year 1's. The school still has a mixture of both sorts of reading books. It was fascinating watching the kids trying to sound out the look and say books. They were also much more boring because they have to stick to such a rigid small set of words. The decodable books were far more fun.

I thinking watching a child reading by decoding is much more frustrating in some ways because they do stutter it out for longer. But what they are learning is so much more rewarding very quickly that it really pays off. Today the ones reading the very repetitive texts "the lion went to the zoo, the crocodile went to the zoo" were clearly just not really engaged at all!

I seriously recomend going in to hear your kids class read for anyone who has worries about their own child or phonics. It really puts everything into perspective. And you are doing a great service. The more those little mites get to practice the better they will be!!

Lisa

Builde · 04/02/2010 17:14

alternatively, stifuckt could be some strange sexual practice...

claig · 04/02/2010 17:43

or she could be trying to tell somebody to be quiet

kdk · 07/02/2010 21:55

Hi all

just a quick update to let you know that I met with my dd's teacher on Friday. They say she is having probs both with literacy and numeracy but feel it is more a problem with concentration and lack of focus than anything else although she did suggest I get dd checked over by GP.

Also she and a couple of other children who are also not 'getting' the whole reading/decoding thing are going to get extra lessons with the headteacher - have been busy selling this to my dd as a sign that she is very special and lucky ...

Will be going to see head in the week to see what she thinks/what I can do to help/support and whether she thinks my dd would benefit from a tutor (I know that one of the yr 2 teacher does do the odd bit of tutoring).

So, a bit further forward ... just have to wait and see.

OP posts:
Mytholmroyd · 07/02/2010 23:48

Oh kdk I sympathise! I posted a similar thread about 18 months ago. My 7 year old DD3 couldnt read or write and was way behind. The school tested her for dyslexia but she wasnt. They sent her for special reading sessions. The thing was, she just didnt see the point, couldnt concentrate on it and then just said she was rubbish and no good and gave up.

She loved to sing and dance and talk - very articulate - if she could have taken her SATs verbally she would have passed with flying colours! On the advice from mumsnet I took her to the local choir - and she needed to learn her words and read quickly. Her reading has improved enormously since (she is 8 and a half now) and she is beginning to get more confident. Still near the bottom of her class at English but she is catching up and got the best result in the class in a mock science SATs last year.

Plus, having a "special talent" (singing) has made her realise that she isnt rubbish at everything. I am not worried about her anymore.

Your daughter is still young - she wouldnt have started school in Sweden or the US at all yet!

lisata · 08/02/2010 14:57

Mytholmyroyd
What a lovely story ... self esteem is so important. My mum says that she cannot teach an unhappy child to read. She describes a part of the brain at the back of the neck (have no idea what exactly she is talking about) that freezes when children loose confidence. She says it stops them reading. Her first job when she starts with a reluctant reader is building confidence. She makes a mind map of all the things they are brilliant at and gets them to colour it in and take it home!

Teaching is such an art form!!

Mytholmroyd · 08/02/2010 21:16

Hi Lisata

Thats really interesting - it was exactly like that "a freeze" - a panic striken look and then bursting into tears. I have not heard that before. Wish I had known about it! She would cry all the time and the teacher would tell me she needed to grow up.

Then she moved into year 3 she had a new male teacher just out of college - she used to sit and chat with him about their respective sisters who had just started Uni . He has been marvellous for her and I am so glad she stayed down in year 4 so she can have another year with him. He lets her help the "little ones" which she loves to do and that also I think is building her confidence.

He cant have much experience but clearly like your mum, has the "art"!

samanthar · 09/02/2010 22:46

Hi, my ds twin was literally over 18 mths behind dd twin ..she 'got' reading by April of reception but it was really only by Christmas of year 2 that he would pick up a real book and read
Depends what they do at school...Ginn? Ort?
Try floppys phonics and Songbirds both from Ort as these were not given out at school
How many books a week does she get?

kdk · 10/02/2010 09:46

Hi Sam

She gets one book a week - has had a mix of ORT, Rigby and National Geographic - the latter she was choosing herself and were impossible as they were non-fiction and had lots of words that were impossible to sound out phonically ie scissors.

She's now going to get some extra help (along with a couple of others who are struggling) from the headmistress and they are going to make sure she gets phonic books. I've said I'll see how she gets on - if by the end of term she hasn't made any progress I may have to get her a tutor as I feel she needs some real one-to-one time to consolidate the whole letter/sound thing.

My dd has very poor concentration and wanders off into her own world in a very endearing way, it has to be said, but it's hard for the teacher to try and make sure she's focused when she (the teacher) has 29 other kids as well ...

OP posts:
rockinhippy · 10/02/2010 10:50

Sorry can't type much right now,......but do have a look at "The Magic Pencil"....there are some online videos etc, I found this a big help when my DD got stuck after a bout in hospital.......again it was a confidence issue, & she just gave up a bit for a while........she is very creative, & I found that because of that she needs a more visual approach to all subjects,......getting her going with her letter formation gave her a boost with her reading too.......her teachers thought she read well, but I knew her to have a photographic memory, so wasn't actually reading, if that make sense........ I also found drawing her attention to signs etc, news stand adds anything written in the outside world.....start reading them to her.....& then stop....her curiosity will likely take over & she will want to know, & try for herself...it worked wonders when my DD became fed up with books for a while
good luck

New posts on this thread. Refresh page