KS1 SATS??

[CardyMow]

I am a bit confused...in May 2009, my DS1 (7yo now, Y3) took his KS1 SATS, and due to DS2's (6yo atm, Y1) SEN, I'm very concerned (lets just say, my DD is SEN and had an horrific time with Y6 SATS, not keen to repeat the experience..school not great either, but no choice on that one in my area/situation). I was chatting to some of the other mums in the playground this morning, a few of whom are adament that KS1 SATS have been abolished...Is this true? Bearing in mind that it's only half a year since DS1 took his, has there been that much of a change in such a short time period? DS2 would be due to sit them in May 2011 (15 months from now) if they are still around. Could someone in the know please enlighten me...

Sorry, KS1 SATS still exist but they are only used as PART of a teachers judgement as to the level a child is working at, along with ongoing assessments, levelled work, targets, APP and a whole raft of other things we have to plough through! However, if your child has SEN and is working at Level 1 the tests are replaced by "Tasks" which for maths involves working with the teacher in a small group on a few practical activities and for reading, sharing a book together. Most children do however sit the writing test, this is one short ( and by this I have seen anything from 2-3 lines to half a page of writing) and one long piece. If they are working at Level 2 they would sit the "tests" . However NO child-or parent!- should feel stressed by these. They are simply a snapshot of a day and are not even "reported" to county/parents. It is the teachers assessment overall which is now the "official" level.

Okay, it's just that my DS2 is (verbally) working on KS2 maths at home with me, but at school is still in the lowest group as he has muscle problems and cannot produce any written work, at home he is working on his 3 and 4 times tables (he already knows his 2's, 5's and 10's), but at school they are trying to get him to do 2+1=3, just because he can't write. He's on an IEP, class teacher and SenCo both agree that he needs a laptop as the inability to produce written work is holding him back, but the school only have one laptop for SEN, and a DC in Y5 has it, so my son won't get one until Y3. He's in Y1 currently. DS1's assessment last year was split, one lvl for SATS, one lvl from teacher. I have...err...ishoos...with the school, but no choice (v.long story, closest school with spaces for both my DS's is 30 miles away and I don't drive...). I don't see how he can actually DO the tests as the school don't provide a TA to scribe for him, or a laptop for him. It's not that he doesn't understand the work, it's that he can only say the answers IYSWIM.

My DS2 couldn't produce 2 words of writing! Yet he can read, type short stories at home (complete with spelling mistakes), and can work on maths that's 2 years ahead of his chronological age without a problem in his head/speaking.

Is that the same in ALL schools? Sorry for the 20 Q's. But parents did get the sats lvls sent home on their report (for DS1), separate from the teachers assessment lvl. I was unsure after reading that, so checked DS1's end of year report (2009), and it is on there as : SATS results:
Writing - Lvl 3c
Reading - Lvl 3a
Maths - Lvl 3a

Teacher assessments :
Writing - Lvl 3c
Reading - Lvl 4c
Maths - Lvl 4b

So do you mean it's changed for this year (2010), or it will change for the year after (2011, when DS2 will do them), or that my DS's primary is unusual? The class teacher's comment says how teacher was surprised at the lvls DS1 acheived in SATS as he was working to a much higher level in his classwork.

So How do they do it for a non-writing DC? DS2's teacher assessment at christmas said he is working on Lvl 1a for reading, below lvl 1 for writing, and below lvl 1 for maths. (Which I know is not true)

The system for KS1 SATs was the same in 2009 as it will be for 2010 (2011 is a bit of an unknown - possible change of government etc)
Loudlass have you seen the criteria for the NC levels?

Right, here goes! obviously I can only say what we do in our school as each school might follow different procedures but

At the end of yr 2 teacher assessment levels are reported to County for the official results. These SHOULD be based on a wide range of evidence ( schools are moderated and we cannot use evidence from SATS papers to justify our opinion, it has to be based on work in class. In the "good old days" it was only the SATS results that were reported to county, we then had a couple of years when we reported both, now we only report the Teacher assessment. Schools can then decide what information they will report to parents, they have to provide the teacher assessment as this is the official figure, but they can also provide the SATS test results. This is clearly what your school does. There can be reasons for this, not least that the yr 6 SATs results are based solely on tests rather than on teacher assessment so it prepares parents for differences between the two!
Teacher assessments should NOT be based purely on the written work produced and CERTAINLY not if a child has difficulties that affect his/her ability to produce written work.
Why cannot the school allow a TA to scribe for your child? this is certainly allowed at KS2 SATS ( as long as it is an established practice for this child, ie not something that is done JUST for the SATS tests) and there is no reason why it couldn't be done for KS1 tests, especially as you have an IEP which highlights this as a problem. I would certainly query this with the school.
I aalso am not sure WHT they can't provide a laptop. We are only a small school( 80 pupils) but we have 25 laptops. Although they are usually used for ICT/literacy lessons etc, if a child neeeded one because of difficulties with writing, they would simply be given one! The school can always buy another,it's not difficult. Some authorities provide what is known as a Cowriter, a small handheld keypad that assists with written work and can be used for those that have difficulty writing( ours are used by children with dyslexia or-in one case- by a child who has appalling handwriting!) Sorry, but this seems more of an excuse on the schools part than a valid reason
As an aside however, I would be more concerned about the nature of work being expected of your child than the SATS level he is given. After all, no one actually CARES about the level ( heresy I know, but to be honest, when did an employer ever ask what level a candidate achieved in KS1 SATS papers?) If he is capable of working at Y3 level but is not afforded the opportunity to do so, simply because he cannot record his answers on paper, then the school is not meeting his educational needs. This I would DEFINITELY raise with the school.

KS1 SATs are marked by the teachers, not by external examiners who mark KS2 SATs. Therefore the results are not considered impartial, especially if your child moves in Yr 3 to a junior school. Infant schools, like all educational establishments, are expected to prove that children have progressed, hence the level 4 at age 7. I am yet to meet a child who received level 4 in a KS1 SATs paper who is actually working at level 4. The results are misleading for parents and not considered accurate by future teachers. Reinforce to your DS that they are practise for taking tests in the future and that he is not to worry.

In KS1 SATs the highest possible level awarded in the KS1tasks/tests is 3.

From the Assessment & Reporting Arrangements document

"Children working towards level 1 should be assessed on their work completed in class throughout the year. The use of the tasks with these children is optional. Schools do not have to notify anyone if these children do not take the tasks."

"

Tasks and tests must be administered to all eligible children who are working at level 1 or above in reading, writing and mathematics. The role of the tasks and tests is to help inform the final teacher assessment judgement reported for each child at the end of key stage 1. There is no requirement to report separately the levels obtained from the tasks and tests."

"I am yet to meet a child who received level 4 in a KS1 SATs paper who is actually working at level 4."
First of all, mrz is right - the highest mark a child can achieve in a KS1 test is level 3. They might be teacher assessed at level 4, but the evidence required to show that the child worked securely at this level would be considerable and varied.

"KS1 SATs are marked by the teachers, not by external examiners who mark KS2 SATs"
Slightly misleading - the KS1 assessment procedure is moderated regularly by the LEA, who would genuinely be very interested in a Level 4 assessment at KS1.

And the 20% of KS2 English papers that I sucessfully appeal every single year for our Year 6s sheds some light upon the supposed validity of external markers - this makes a huge difference to our league table standing after the papers are remarked correctly.

Our KS1 assessments are moderated every year by the local authority. I have to provide evidence for 1 in 3 of my children ( who the moderator picks at random from a list) as to the level the child is working at in reading, writing, maths and science. None of the evidence can come from any SATS papers ( whether practice or "real" )but from work in class, at home and in groups. I have to justify my opinions on every point of the level descriptions. If I say a child is working at Level 2B, you can be blxxdy sure they are!

The lvl 4 was from the teacher assessment for my DS1, he is DEFINATELY working on high lvl 4 work/low lvl 5 work now (at home with me) in Y3. They recorded his mark from his sats as lvl 3's, I was told that was because lvl 3 is the highest the KS1 sats cover. But he is working on lvl 4 work in school, his extension (G&T) work is the stuff the Y5/6 are doing.

I think the school's excuses RE the laptop is because DS2 is on SA+ rather than a statement, so the funding isn't 'ringfenced' for him. The school has been made to double in size in just 3 years, and they have had to build 2 extra classrooms over the '09 summer holidays (thus still being on the same budget until April). I have told the SenCo in writing that as both her and the class teacher are stating that the lack of a laptop is holding him back, they have until the end of April (a month after they receive their budget for the next financial year) to provide him with one or I'm going to put in a complaint to the SEN team at my LEA.....

p.s. I KNOW the school isn't meeting my DS2's educational needs, but, just as with my DD, there is NO choice in the matter as I live in a VERY oversubscribed area, to the point where a new primary was opened in September 2009, and another is opening in Sept 2011....we were ONE STREET out of catchment for the new primary that opened in Sept 2009. The one that opens in Sept 2011 will be MY DC's catchment school, a 3 minute walk from my front door, but by that point, DS1 will be going into Y5 and DS2 will be going into Y3. By that point I am unsure whether they will want to leave the friends they've had since reception.

Was your child given KS2 tests at the end of Y2 because of G+T? I really don't understand why the teacher reported SATs levels AND TA levels, and how s/he was able to sub-level at 3a,b,c and 4a,b,c.

At the end of Y2 all our children receive printed sheets with the teacher assessment levels only.

The only levels reported at this stage are :
1,2c,2b,2a,3

There are no sub-levels reported for level 1 and level 3.

Primarymum et al, I apologise. You cannot receive a L4 in KS1 SATs. I just get so cross when teachers assess children to be at L4 when they are aged 6/7 and have not even touched on skills and knowledge needed to be at this level. HOWEVER I have seen the assessment criteria for KS1 SATs and the difference between assessing a piece of work as L3 due to these criteria and the criteria used in Yr6 is vastly different. When I have approached infant school teachers about this, they have been surprised by the skills needed to achieve a level 4 in writing as they have been teacher assessing children as L4 if they are above the level judged by the tests.

Primarymum in particular, I did not mean to imply that infant teachers lie about levels and am sure you mark your work thoughtfully and accurately. Your LEA sound very thorough. In our LEA, it is not common practise to moderate KS1 SATs. Maybe this would help.

I find it frustrating when parents regularly tell me that their child was a level 3/4 in reading/writing/maths in yr2 and ask why they are regressing. Grrr. Junior school teacher rant over. Apologies all round for misinformation.

"HOWEVER I have seen the assessment criteria for KS1 SATs and the difference between assessing a piece of work as L3 due to these criteria"

You are referring to the criteria used to assess level 3 in the KS1 tests, and level 3 in the KS2 tests, and I agree, they were vastly different.
But now we use teacher assessment, the level 3 used is the NC level 3, and the criteria therefore is exactly the same. Most schools now use APP or Ros Wilson's Criterion Scale to assess writing across the school, in Y2 and Y6. We have come a long way in teacher assessment as a profession, Ooohwhatafuss, and I speak as someone who has taught extensively in Year 2 and Year 6.

Can you ask for a sample of their writing to be sent up with the children, Ooohwhatafuss? I think I would be very tempted.

I agree OWaF. I have to admit that our Y3 teachers curse us sometimes! However, I think that writing assessment, in particular, has become more fair since TA were reported at the end of KS1, and levels at moderation meetings have certainly plummetted! In our LA, both Y2 and Y3 teachers are invited to moderation meetings, which also helps the transition between key stages.

I think the drop in levels in Y3 can also be explained by the fact that all the tests are timed (major reason IMO - the children are still very young, and many have a very shaky concept of the passage of time). Also, I question the incorporation of the 5/10sec mental maths' score in the final level - this is too fast for some of the less able children, who actually would be able to work out the answer in a slightly longer time.

But that still doesn't explain the KS1 scores of loudlass's ds!

It doesn't explain why teacher assessment would differ from Y2 to Y3 either - unless Y3 teachers rely too heavily on the Y3 optional SAT, which should be a very small part of the evidence, as at Y2.

I'm afraid our school relies on test results throughout KS2. (I agree, Feenie - bad practice )

And poor teacher assessment is why we will cntinue to have a terrible job on our hands to ever get rid of SATs. (Not having a go at you personally, IATB). Our Y2 colleagues have been paving the way with excellent teacher assessment for years now - when will KS2 follow suit?!

Agree- I teach Y2, and I think that TA is much better. We are working on KS2, as we are just introducing APP. (In KS1 last year, we used SATs assessments, Ros W and APP for writing assessments, so we're trying hard to pave the way!!! )

It's Y3, 4 and 5 where it's hard to persuade colleagues not to over rely on test results. Y6 are actually pretty good at teacher assessment, imo - there are usually very few surprises for y6 teachers in SATS, unless a child scrapes a higher level by a couple of marks. And that's when KS3 teachers get pissed off at us - but we would know those children weren't secure at that level!

Last year I taught yr2/3, this year I have 5/6 so experience at both ends! It is consistancy that is the key, we have to ensure that what is a L3 to one teacher is a level 3 to another. ( As staff, we all meet each week with a piece of written work that we level individually and then together so we are all singing from the same hymn sheet, we take moderation VERY seriously!) We too use Ros Wilson and APP as PART of our teacher assessment and quite honstly I can now read through a piece of work and sublevel it straight off ( and [embarrassed] at the same time!) Time I would agree is a major factor in differences in TEST results , especially between yr 2 and 3 but it shouldn't be a factor in teacher assessment.
( and Oooohwhatafuss, there was no need for any apology, I know practice can vary considerably from school to school and it's not always good!)

I have to say, the KS1 sats WERE done in the classroom, but they were timed etc, we had a big meeting before them. DS1 is now in Y3 and is consistently producing lvl 4 work in English & lvl 4-5 work in maths. My nan is an ex-teacher, and now tutors Y6 dc's for the 11-plus, and she sends me work for him to do. In science he can explain so many different things it's unbelievable, I got A's in Chemistry and physics GCSE, and he's able to grasp concepts that I struggled with at 15. I DO do a lot of 'kitchen science' type experimants at home with the DC's, and if they ask a typical 'child' question e.g. "why is the sky blue", I have always explained why and provided experiments for them to do at home to show it. For some reason they give DS1 more TA time (for extention work) than they give DS2 (SEN) or, last year, DD (SN). Make of that what you will.. Still doesn't answer why they gave separate lvls for DS1 for TA and sats though...I'm just worried about the lack of help for DS2 as he can't produce written work, despite having the knowledge and working at a higher level orally at home.

from the assessment and reporting arrangements

"Tasks and tests must be administered to all eligible children who are working at level 1 or above in reading, writing and mathematics. The role of the tasks and tests is to help inform the final teacher assessment judgement reported for each child at the end of key stage 1. ....

There is no requirement to report separately the levels obtained from the tasks and tests."

schools are not required to report both but may if they wish do so if as in your child's case there is a discrepancy.

Loudlass: I'm interested to know how your ds accessed the teaching to get a level 4 in maths in Y2 in order to be teacher assessed at that level.

Did he get special lessons to cover the KS2 curriculum? Does he know all about equivalent fractions, ratios, percentages, angles, probability, rotational symmetry, etc, etc?