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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Another state primary v private pre-prep qn (I can hear the groans already - sorry!)

85 replies

thegruffalosmum · 17/12/2009 00:06

Dd is at a state primary which is ok. It's a happy school. She's doing fine. She is only in reception so it's early days.

But I can't help thinking we are giving her a poorer deal compared to the sort of schools some of her friends attend. (Before I continue, please note, we only have one dc and school fees are not an issue at all so please cast the cost aside for the sake of this question.)

She has 30 in her class, the pre-prep has 14 - and at least the same number of staff. Dd's reading book gets changed now and then, theirs get changed frequently. They get listened to reading every day. She gets heard ooh once so far since starting school in Sept (I know she's only in reception but she could read before she started and is keen so surely someone could sit with her for 15 mins a couple of times a week?)

I know half of Mn think this about their dc but she is very bright. Not a genius but very bright. Would a smaller class be better for her later on, especially after reception and year 1 when things get a little less play based?

She also likes structure and routine and the school she is at is quite chaotic at times whereas a smaller class might be a bit more ordered. I would hate a hothouse type school but the pace is kind of slow (not just talking about reception as I know that is playing and learning to be at school/ socialising).

Do smaller classes make a big difference?

If money was not an issue would you switch?

OP posts:

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OneMoreMum · 18/12/2009 12:00

I would move her now if you're not happy.

We put our 2 boys into our local school even though they'd been to the nursery of a private school. We thought it would be less pressured and they would make more local friends.

Big mistake, our youngest particularly was ignored in year 1 (in a combined year 1 and 2 class) and once we'd realised it the damage was done. Our older one needs to be pushed and was coasting along and the teachers were too busy to notice.

We agonised about moving them from their friends but in the end moved them to a lovely small private school with between 12-15 in a class. The difference is unbelievable, everyone knows them, they've played team sports from year 3, lots of trips and after-school activities, it's an entirely different experience and one I would recommend to anyone.

MollieO · 18/12/2009 12:16

I wouldn't be concerned about moving mid year in reception. At ds's pre-prep they took in new boys in both the Lent and Summer terms and year 1. The new boys have completely integrated without any issues at all.

If you can afford to do it then I would. Would you stay private until 18? In ds's year there is a mix of those who will stay private regardless of academic ability, those who will do 11+ and go to grammar and those who fail 11+ and stay on to the senior non-selective school attached to ds's.

MollieO · 18/12/2009 12:20

As far as reading is concerned, ds is heard every day. He is in year 1 but the same was true in reception. New reading books every day in reception other than midweek when they had a day off from homework.

Original poster

thegruffalosmum · 18/12/2009 12:44

I do feel like I should give the state primary a chance to do more for her which is why I probably wouldn't move her now. I think I should go in and chat to the teacher / head about it all and see what they say they can do for her next term.

Will this sound up its own though in a "my dd is so clever and I'm a pushy mother" way??

What can I say to the teacher?

I have no idea what her learning goals are, if any as, if they have filled in EYFS stuff for dd, they certainly haven't showed it to me. It's all so woolly. Parents evening involved a nice chat saying she'd settled well and wouldn't have any problems academically and she could have books home before the rest of them when I asked if she could because she could already read.

Allegedly the teacher differentiates the questions she asks and tasks she sets the kids though.

OP posts:

Cortina · 18/12/2009 13:18

Do smaller classes make a big difference?

Read somewhere that the optimum size was 22 and anything less had not been proven to give any real advantage.

Will try to dig out the study done/reference. I can't see how this is, surely the smaller the better (in an ideal world)?

Original poster

thegruffalosmum · 18/12/2009 13:22

Cortina, I think the idea is that too small is limiting socially. Too big and the teacher is stretched too far.

OP posts:

Cortina · 18/12/2009 13:27

Hmm, can see that but surely 16 would be more 'ideal' than 22?

Mine are in classes of 26 and 24, and I don't even know! How terrible is that! btw.

Original poster

thegruffalosmum · 18/12/2009 14:21

I agree. 16 would be enough but not too many. Possibly a bit small if a mixed school and the gender balance wasn't 50:50 and your dc was in the minority with say only 6 other boys or girls?

OP posts:

PollyParanoia · 18/12/2009 14:36

Reiterate what many have said here. I think parents can get way too hung up about their child's reception reading levels. This is more often a reflection of how much encouragement they get at home or what sort of pre-school they go to. If they're the best reader at the beginning, it's unlikely to stay that way. And if you're not careful, you'll be like the parents of one of my ds' sons who are convinced that the school has failed their son because he started as the best reader and has now been overtaken (interestingly by kids for whom English is a second language). It's as if because he started at the top he should stay that way which gives no room for others to improve, the variety in ages, genders, home life etc. Bring up your concerns as they're valid, but don't rush into making a decision based on the fact that your child is best reader after a term.

trickerg · 18/12/2009 15:22

I agree PP. I often find in Y2 that the children who have the best reading comprehension (which is, after all, what 'reading' is all about) are those who've progressed steadily from YR, and have therefore always read age-appropriate material. However, it appears that many parents of 'natural' early readers have difficulty accepting that it is possible that their child has been 'overtaken' during KS1 without blaming the school.

I don't agree with rushing 5-6 year olds on to 'chapter' books WITHOUT pictures. How many times do we hear boasts about 5-6 year olds reading Harry Potter on MN?! Sounds like a punishment to me! Instead, they could be reading picture books with a more challenging narrative. There are plenty around.

creditcrunched · 18/12/2009 15:34

gruffalosmum - I can't see why you are making such a deal over this. Unless you are philosophically/morally attached to state schools, then what's the problem?
If you like the other schools, think she will be happy and get more out of them (i.e. believe you will get something in return for the money you put in) then just make the decision and get on with it.
If not, don't.

Yawn.

(in case anyone is wondering I have one dc in state and one in private but that's irrelevant to my post above)

Original poster

thegruffalosmum · 18/12/2009 16:57

Erm creditcrunch could it be because it's a big and important decision?

If you find such threads boring, don't read them.

OP posts:

smallwhitecat · 18/12/2009 17:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster

thegruffalosmum · 18/12/2009 17:26

Quite right smallwhite. I totally agree and I hope nothing I have said gives the impression I wouldn't.

OP posts:

Paolosgirl · 18/12/2009 17:29

Just come back to this - have you still not decided? As per creditcrunch's post (and my earlier one) - what exactly is your dilemma? You believe that a private school with small class sizes will give her a great education, and opposed to the merely good one she's getting at the moment, and money is no problem.

I'm genuinely baffled as to why you're still posting to complete strangers about such a "big and important decision" - esp. when you think the school she's at is giving her a "poorer deal compared to others".

Original poster

thegruffalosmum · 18/12/2009 19:25

You're entitled to be baffled but isn't Mumsnet all about posting to strangers and yes, sometimes, about big decisions. Sometimes far, far bigger ones than this.

I'm a bit by your posts. If you find it boring go away and look at a thread you are interested in. I find it useful to discuss this sort of thing with others on here.

OP posts:

Paolosgirl · 18/12/2009 19:35

Yes, of course - but what more do you want anyone to say?! You believe a smaller class will give her a great education whereas at the moment she's getting a poorer deal by being at the state school with 30 in her class.

Surely that's your decision made, no?

(BTW - I haven't used the word boring. Yet.)

Cistus · 18/12/2009 20:18

of course it makes a difference. Of course the private pre prep will get better academic results.

there is no comparison. The funding is vastly different.

I have 3 ds at private pre prep. they are 2 years ahead of state contemporaries by Yr 6...

this is not why my dc are there.

Ds1 has aspergers and dyslexia and ADD and simply could not cope in a bigger class.

for him to achieve anything he needed to be in a small class, with fab pastoral support. I have to pay for that. Dc2 & 3 are there because I will not do for one what I cannot do for all.

the pay back is that they are not part of the local community as some other children are. I regret this, and regret the life lessons lost in a private education.

I am state educated. I am lucky to have the choice ( and it is MY choice - i pay for it) to provide the best education for my children.

Cistus · 18/12/2009 20:22

ps ds3 is in reception and receives a new book every day. He is reading - those who are not choose books for their parents to read to them.

Paolosgirl · 18/12/2009 20:24

It all depends on the individual school again though - our local state high school also has the region's (fabulous) autistic unit attached to it. The pupils are taught separately, but mix in classes during and after-school where and whenever possible. The nearest private schools just don't have this.

Quattrocento · 18/12/2009 20:25

In response to the OP's questions (which are a bit narrow, I think)

Do smaller classes make a big difference? Yes, massive difference. Interesting report posted by Seasonofgoodwill, although why anyone would fund a large study to discover the bleeding obvious, I don't know ...

If money was not an issue would you switch? Yes

mrsshackleton · 18/12/2009 21:03

Why are some of you being so vile to the OP, she's asked perfectly good questions (why narrow FGS?) and she obviously has not made her mind up, she's leaning in one direction but not 100 per cent convinced. Mn exists to mull over these decisions

As she says, if you find it so dull, then go and read an aibu

Paolosgirl · 18/12/2009 21:20

Vile?? A tad over-dramatic...

CaptainNancy · 18/12/2009 21:21

so... gruffalosmum... in OP you say you have only 1 child, but just now you say you also have baby DS... which is it?
Or are you late in researching your article?

EldonAve · 18/12/2009 21:28

CaptainNancy - I think you are on to something

No comment on if the preps have places
Most people would stick with their choice esp having already lost a deposit

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