What age do you think children should start school?

[LucyLight]

I really strongly believe that the school starting age in this country is too young. My youngest will be starting school next September at 4 years and 2 weeks. Our primary belief systems are in development at this time and children are required to fit in with school learning styles and discipline when they are often just not develope enough to do this. This often leads children to think that they can't do things and I have seen this with my daughter's friends who are all summer birthdays. If you feel stongly about this please sign this petition to get the government to rethink school starting age in line with the Cambridge Review.

petitions.number10.gov.uk/Startat6/

Thank you!

Belle: primary is compulsory from 5. That is Y1.

Reception classes however start at 4.

Good schools fill quickly: they will not save a place for your child if you don't want him or her to start at 4.

So to get into the school you want you will probably need to start at 4.

I agree with Pitch, completely. I wanted to say something similar but couldn't articulate it [] For example there has been so much talk about how there's no point teaching times tables until children understand the concept of number. But actually children can absorb times tables at a v young age without understanding them and without too much trouble. But the concept of number is much harder.

Result: many children neither understand the concept of number nor know their times tables by the age of eight or nine. Maths is a struggle, confidence is affected, enjoyment declines and learning decelerates.

Thanks for answering, Professor !

There seems to be a bit more flexibility here in Scotland compared to England though.

If DS1 had been born on his due date he would have been registered to go to school 1 calender year earlier - that just seems daft! He, as it turned out, was well ready, could read at 4 1/2 but still had the most spectacular temper tantrums. He needed his further year to simply mature (sorry if that makes him sound like some kind of farmhouse cheese ). There were some people who felt I was "holding him back" ...

There is the option here to "push" for early school entry or ask for deferral. There can be a professional assessment for that (Pre SCAT), but parents' impression goes a long way towards decision making IME.

Yes, the flexibility in Scotland seems to work well. There's nothing equivalent in England (there was in Bradford, but they are abolishing it ).

Yes you can start at 5 and all this means that you end up going straight into year one and miss all the socialisation that happens in reception (grouping etc). Remember that reception is very different to year one - where it all changes and where most children are still just 5.

I agree that children can look ready in reception and countries that do better than us have much better pre school education. This would be a better option and give a better start. All the evidence and research shows this gives a better start for children.

petitions.number10.gov.uk/Startat6/

Peacocks and *LucyLight" - thank you and apologies for the hijack. I know it's ridiculous but I find it a bit overwhelming as it's just so unfamiliar to me.

I have had experience with the German and the Swiss systems.

In Germany the DC go to kindergarten from age 3yo to 6yo. Similar to Belgium, no formal schooling but they work on themes and do lots of outings, project work etc.

The step from kindergarten to school is very harsh and a lot of children find it difficult to go from the sheltered life in kita to the school environment.

Here in Switzerland they do a kind of preschool from 4 - 6yo, not compulsory but with a very high take up rate.

DS is in his second year, 2eme Enfantine and is doing a little bit of formal schooling (writing name, learning to form numbers) and is really enjoying it.

I think that the school environment is great, that he is gradually getting used to the realities of life. No homework until 6yo and even then it is not too much.

"The step from kindergarten to school is very harsh and a lot of children find it difficult to go from the sheltered life in kita to the school environment."

We had german friends whose son was 2 weeks younger than DD and he found school a huge shock when he started 2 years later than DD. Our system seems a much gentler intro.

re: Scandinavian children not being desperate to start school at 5 - my nephew in Germany is 5.6 and at Kindergarten and I can tell that he is just getting bored with it, that he could do with a bit of extra stuff to get his teeth into. Partly his Kindergarten might be to blame, but partly I think he would love it at a school like my dd's. I agree it depends what you mean by "school" - I read on here about some schools being incredibly formal in their learning very early, with lots of homework etc - but my dd's school sets no other h/w than reading in the infants, and they learn around themes with lots of practial stuff going on, and they really really enjoy it.

I am particularly thinking of two of my nephews who have gone through the Swedish system in recent years: one early developer and one slow. They have both been very happy at nursery- the bright one learned to read when he was there and the slower one didn't, but they both equally enjoyed the crafts (which are done to a much higher standard than in the UK- I've had some lovely Xmas presents), the outdoors activities and the educational trips. They both enjoyed the transition to big school, which neither found either stressful or boring. There was plenty of extra stuff for them to do.

If they had started formal schooling, with the express expectation that they should learn to read and write at 4, I expect what would have happened would have been that the bright one would have loved it and the slow one would have got to feel he was a failure- which is pretty well what happened to my own ds here in the UK.

Message withdrawn

I think 5 would be ok. But only 1% or 1.5% of English children start reception at 5, the real age is 4 which is too young. No 4-year old at home or in appropriate childcare should be "bored". A child who is "bored" at 4 is in the wrong nursery.

I've signed your petition, congrats on starting it.

Where do you get the 1% figure from linglette

Both mine are september babies so started within weeks of their 5th birthday so as near as damn it 5.
DD was born on 18th and was the 8th oldest in her class of 30

Ds is 13th and at least 6 were born in September in his class.
(I think it mus be something todo with christmas/new year )
DD's birthday is 3rd so I assume she counts as 5 and one of the 1% when she started school but is only 2 weeks older than dd.

Also meant to say that even by the law of averages then 8% will have started with in weeks of the 5th birthday

number of days between 1st Sept and school start date % 365.

The age at which a child is ready for 'formal learning' can vary from 4 - 7 years. i.e when they are able to sit still for a sustained time, concentrate on a teacher speaking to a whole class, hold a pencil correctly, remember and follow instruction....

The average age for starting formal education (year 1) in England is five and half. Assuming a normal distribution for 'formal education' readiness about half the children in any class won't be completely ready and half will. The youngest in the year being most unlikely to be ready.

Other countries choose to wait for most children to be ready (age 6/7) or to allow the later developers to wait an extra year before starting.

To me this seems better for all the children - less class distruption, less remedial help required and more rapid progress for the whole class.

I like the two year 'reception' idea mentioned earlier.

Or, as I have posted on other threads - where a school has more than one class intake per year, they should split the year by age. e.g having an autumn, spring and summer class. All children could start at the same time but the younger class could have more reception terms.

5 1/2? Surely 4 1/2? Or are you not counting reception? At our school, the kids spent reception learning to read, write and do sums. Anyway, side issue as I like your ideas for solutions.

In my town there are 4 state schools. Ignoring the faith issue, you could, rather than having the annual stupid scramble to determine which school is the most fashionable, put all the Sept-Novs in school 1, all the Dec-Febs in School 2, all the March to Mays in School 3 and all the Junes to Augusts in School 4. My August boy would still have struggled but not half so much as in a Sept-Aug peer group.

But then that wouldn't work because eg my May born dd1 was absolutely ready to keep up with any September born child. Whereas you might get the October birthday who is just not ready yet.

Yes, but your mayborn dd1 wouldn't suffer from being with other kids born in May.

But the slow developing October birthday would struggle to keep up with his September peers.

At the end of the day what's needed is for teachers to be sensitive to individual children and their development, and I personally believe that many teachers make great efforts and are very successful at tailoring their teaching to the different needs of their pupils.

Linglette - Perhaps I was being optimistic in assuming minimal formal education in reception!!

Emkana - dc's such as yours and Oct borns operating at the same level as average summer borns are rare. It's easier to deal with a few exceptions rather than our current system where up to half dc's aren't ready. Also, in my proposal an advanced May born dc wld be in a far better position than an equally advanced September born is in our current system.

Yep, what sort of puzzled me here is the fact that people are so reluctant to do things that don't look 'productive'.
So a lot of the 'work' done at kindergarden in France is seen as a 'waste of time' or at best just 'play' by english (british?) standards. I'm thinking here about walking on a line, following a line with your finger, gluing, sticking, drawing, so called PE (lots of exercises on aparatus) to name a few. However, all these are actually building the foundation to be able to learn to count, write and read (for example, lots of work on aparatus has been shown to improve children reading abilities).

thats a bit of a sweeping generalisation - in DS reception class (and his preschool last year) they certianly do all of those things and there isn't any feeling that its a waste of time.
On the contrary his teachers seem to emphasise the time spent 'exploring and playing' rather than rigid ideas of learning by rote.

I do like the idea of a 3-6 extended preschool, I also like the idea of 2 entires each year in Sept and Jan - but NOT dependant on birth date. My DS (April) would have gone in a January intake but I think he was/is very ready for school in september.

So basically what I want is;
universal, free, early years places from 3-6yrs.
Focus on exploration and learning via play
Mainly attached to schools but options for seperate 'preschools'
Good 'top up' / out of hours provision to accomodate working parents.
option to send your kid half days, 2-3 days a week or f/t, your choice.
Children can enter into their first year of 'formal' schooling from the term they turn five, and unles home ed/ alternative arrangements must enter yr 1 in either Sept or Jan of term/yr after they turn 6.

What you don't seem to see in English nurseries/reception classes is any decent crafts- they do shoddy little things that won't do for Christmas presents and that fall apart when you bring them home. Is it lack of funds for materials or lack of teacher training or too much Elf and Safety?

Yes Emkana, and my August-born son would have struggled to keep up with his June peers because he has a whopping great language delay.

But he would suffer less and require fewer individual resources and create fewer distractions away from your daughter.

Can't you see that no one proposal will be in the best interests of all children? Jackstarbright's proposal is not in the best interests of my child - his interests are best met by doing what we are actually doing instead - deferring reception by a year. But the aim is not perfection, the aim is just to make things better using methods that can be achieved in the current economic climate.

As Jackstarbright says, the fewer exceptional children you have, the more easily you could deal with them.

What they do in Sweden, and always have done, is to let parents decide when their children are ready to start school.

It used to be that if you were born in the second half of the year, your parents, usually liasising with the school nurse would choose for you to start either at 6 1/2 or 7 1/2, depending on how mature they thought you.

Now you choose whether to start reception at 6 or go straight into Year 1 at 7.

I like this idea of letting the people who know you make the decision. I would have chosen for ds to delay a year.

In German Kindergartens the craft that is supposedly done by the children is often in fact produced by the staff, don't know if I prefer that really.

linglette, I do understand, but I still don't think that the suggestion of three seperate schools is the way forward, as I said previously, teachers must and do look at the individual child no matter what the mix is.