What age do you think children should start school?

[LucyLight]

I really strongly believe that the school starting age in this country is too young. My youngest will be starting school next September at 4 years and 2 weeks. Our primary belief systems are in development at this time and children are required to fit in with school learning styles and discipline when they are often just not develope enough to do this. This often leads children to think that they can't do things and I have seen this with my daughter's friends who are all summer birthdays. If you feel stongly about this please sign this petition to get the government to rethink school starting age in line with the Cambridge Review.

petitions.number10.gov.uk/Startat6/

Thank you!

I think the UK has got it right.

Here they start at 6 after 3 yrs of pre-school. Dd is just finishing her first term of primary and has at least 4 hrs of homework every night, which I imagine (at least it has been for me ) a much bigger shock to the system than reception/yr 1/feeding them in gently to the school system would have been.

I suppose it depends more on what they do at school. The UK system is still (if I understand correctly) very much play based in the first year or so? Furrin-land most definitely is not. Hence the later start here.

Never

Halia - what a bizarre question! Is school just free childcare for you then?

And OP - they don't have to start formal education until the term after they turn 5. They never have to go to school, thank goodness!

My children have all been more than ready for school when they started. At DSs school, reception is more akin to an extra year in nursery anyway.

There seems to be a rather desperate ambition for acadecmic achievement amongst some parents of ridiculously young children: so what he cannot write his own name/knows all his letter/numbers/read at the age of 4 1/2?
I do think we do our children a disservice with v young formal schooling.
Even children who are "ready" (and lots of them are of course) would not lose out and IMO gain if left to playing for longer.

Genuine question: If kids do not have to go to school in England until their 5, why is there such a panic over August birthdays?

I think it depends on where you are in Furrin-land, Bucharest. My Swedish nephews are certainly not doing 4 hours of homework in primary school.

My DD at 4.3 stood at the top of the stairs one evening shouting that she "wanted to start schow NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!"

DS is 2 years older so she knew what school was about.

She was at a lovely nursery who had a nice mixture of play and learning jolly phonics and she was doing really well and loved her nursery and had lots of friends, but she was ready for the next level and as soon as she started school a few weeks before her 5th birthday she absolutely flew, reading fluently by christmas.

DS is 2 years older so she knew what school was about.

To be honest she is just a determined girl who knows what she wants. When she was 6 she wanted to learn the piano at school , but there was a waiting list so she had to wait. She just got her brother,s piano book out and started teaching herself.

Both mine are jsut very mature for their age
DS it became more of a problem yr6/7 when he would have been better off starting secondary school a year earlier.

Even if children are not in formal schooling before seven they are often learning to read before then in all these furrin countries. In Finland they often do early reading and arithmetic at preschool and daycare, and loads more parents have higher education so can help their children. It's the norm for both parents to work so the children are usually in daycare anyway.

Pacific because while a child with an August birthday doesn't legally have to be in school (or other full-time education) until September he/she would then be expected to start in Year 1, so missing out any of the gentle play-based acclimatisation of Reception and being pitched straight into (in many places) more formal "lessons" and assessment and even streaming. While trying to break into a social group of older children who'd all been in Reception together, and still being the youngest in the class. There's no provision for starting in Reception at that point. That's if they even got a place in many schools if you don't take up a Reception place in the September of the year in which you turn five the school will fill its roll with children who will and there won't be a space for you in Y1 the following year.

I don't think halia's question is odd. School starting is the time when many women look to return to work, so delaying it puts the kibosh on that, or alternatives (paid for?) have to be thought about. Women who return to work earlier often factor in school starting when making calculations about affordablity.

If children were at home until 6, with the only option before that being paid for, then it would affect the way a lot of people live their lives.

I think there are problems with the British system that have nothing to do with starting early in addition to the one Prof mentions, for a start. I was caught up with that if you want a good school you have to start early -- and that's ridiculous.

But there are other problems too -- it's nuts that they start so early but they still have to do loads of homework. Serious wasting of school time going on if five and six year olds are coming home and having to do homework after seven hours in school.

I don't see anything wrong in starting at five, so long as everyone starts at the same time, guaranteed place in the school round the corner, everyone actually has a decent school round the corner, and hw is abandoned until the age of at least nine.

I think children should stagger in over the first year when they hit the right age so that this problem of groups and cliques doesn't arise. A play and reading based first year from five onwards to get used to school, then onwards with formal reading and arithmetic after that. And no homework.

stuffit, the point about furrin lands is that a well appointed nursery can teach reading to those children who are ready for it, and let the others learn in other ways.

My experience of my nephews' nursery was that there were so many challenging and interesting activities going on that even very bright children had no reason to be bored. They were preparing their own lunch, they were spending lots of time out and about, doing woodland walks, learning about their local environment, going to exhibitions, doing crafts etc etc. They were getting an education that involved far more than the three Rs, but which was flexible enough to include them as and when appropriate.

You always seem to see these groups of nursery children being shepherded around on public transport in Sweden (no concerns with Elf and safety aaik).

Daycare is financed through a maximum fee, so you only pay up to a certain sum and it's quite heavily subsidised.

I am not in favour of the changes to the Swedish secondary school system, but I do think those nurseries look good.

I don't think you can compare the two systems until we are prepared to put money into subsidising nurseries that offer a similarly stimulating experience for all children, not just those of the wealthy.

Exactly Cory I completely agree. Good points. It would be silly to say other countries find this age works, let's change it without examining all the other factors that make it possible and that make it work.

I've talked about the Belgian system before on here. 3 years of Maternelle then Primary starting the September after your 6th birthday. The Maternelle classes have a 99% take up rate - it's free, but not compulsory.

It is not considered to be "childcare" but nursery "education" provided by professionally trained early years teachers. I have been totally impressed with it so far.

My dd is 5.5 and now in the 3rd Maternelle class. There is no "formal" reading and writing going on yet - but she can write her name "joined up" and is doing simple arithmatic. This year they have started to do work sheets, have swimming lessons, and bring a book home from the library each week.

The first 2 years are really about play, but in a structured way. They had themes, say "Baking" - they had stories, drew pictures, went to a farm to see how wheat grows and where flour comes from, went on a visit to a bakery to see how they make bread, baked some themselves, brought in traditional baked goods from their country (bit of mixed group) etc. And so on a whole manner of subjects. Dd has developed a really good solid foundation of knowledge without a phonic being mentioned.

Of course, the dcs also get used to the social side of school. Playing together, eating together, paying attention for ever increasing periods. By the time they are 6 and the "work" starts they are all ready for it. From what I am told, they make really quick progress afterwards because of that.

my question was for several reasons:
1: yes many parents do see 'school age' as the time to go back to work, so delaying it until 6 would impact on people's ability to work unless it was replaced with a contiuation of preschool/ reception type arrangements. You may not like that women (and men) often go back to work when their kids are 4/ and starting school but it is a fact that they do.

2: My DS (and I'm sure plenty of others) thouroughly enjoyed and benefited from a slightly more structured approach with his age peers from around 3yrs onwards. His temper tantrums got less, he leanrt lots fo skills because he wanted to be like his friends, he became more confident. I couldn't have provided that at home (I'm not at all good at the idea of home ed) so unless he had free preschool and reception he would have missed out on that.

3: My DS is a very social and independant soul and gets bored at home with mom, so again without 'some' form of state provided free early learning/childcare from 3-6 hr would be bored and frustrated.

I think fallenmadonna has a good point, are we all talking about the same thing when we say 'school'?

As I said DS reception year seems to consist of lots and lots of play, lots of outdoor time, lots of exploration, lots of social stuff and a little bt of learning how to write their name, say the alphabet and count to 10. No homework unless you count the school reading book whih comes home and you are asked to read it once or twice a week with them. I dont' think those are unreasonable goals for 4-5yr olds.

tbh looking at the yr 1 claas, althoug they spend more time in formal learning situations last week I spotted Yr 1 (5-6):
on a walk round the village to look at the frost patterns on the field/church etc
joining in with the reception and Yr2 for a big game of british bulldog when the rain let up one afternoon - teacher reasons for abandoning plans? they've been cooped up too much this week
helping the school cook choose the veg from the garden for lunch
helping the younger ones get into their costumes for the nativity rehersal
singing
doing a huge collage about Xmas all around the world.

where are these schools that get conjured up where children are sat at desks all day long at the tender age of 4 or 5? Never seen it here.

Sorry they start Primary in the September of the calendar year they turn six, so the youngest in the class (December birthdays) would be 5.9.

My ds will be 5 in feb and he started school in April (when he was 4yrs 2months) part time only until Sept when he started full time. He was very ready for school but he had been to nursery before that so was used to it really.
Personally I think they should keep it the same, however, that us parents should have a say in it and if my child was not ready I would like to of had the option to delay until he was ready, say 5.

SofaQueen - are you sure that kids in Finland are top in English - I would have thought that even with our rotten school system we couls have managed to perform better in our native language than non English speakers!

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I think the key is to allow parents to decide when their kids start school with a lower limit of 5 and an upper limit of say 7 years old. All kids are not ready to start school at the age of 4.

My ds (summer baby) wasn't ready and when I look at how much he has matured in just one year it astounds me - had I been allowed to place him in the year below he would not have encountered such huge problems with regards to high expectations on his concentration levels in the classroom. Year 1 has a brutal pace at our school, it's pushy and competitive and my poor ds was just not ready for it, it was exhausted most of the time. He's coping better now but in Year 1 I struggled to keep his self-esteem in place as he felt like such a failure at school and that was directly brought about by starting school at too young an age.

Message withdrawn

I was totally against my son starting school so young (age 4 yrs and 1.5 mths) up a few weeks after he started.

However, a few weeks after he started I totally changed my mind. He blossomed at school in every way and I couldn't be happier. He much prefered it to nursery. They do a lot of play kind of stuff in reception and his teacher was extremely skilled in making school a great experience for those who had just turned four as well as those who were about to be five.

I can see where you are coming from, because I was right there with you but the reality, for us at least, has been very different. I should add that I work so my son would attend nursery or school at age four, so I cannot comment on home vs school, maybe that is different.

I should add that my son (now in year one and 5 yrs 4.5 mths old) has only just started to really get addition and subtraction or be interested in writing/spelling (and he now gets real joy out of these thing) and I (and his teachers) are totally fine with it. More importantly so is he. At no point has he felt 'behind' compared to the older children who got these things in reception.

If I were a SAHM I would have definately taught him the same things at the same age anyway, because they come up!

Can I do a little hijack please? And I'm sure I could find this out elsewhere but I know you'll know...

What age does English primary school start? And what's Reception (is it the first class)?

My DD is 2.3 and is at a Montessori nursery. I can leave her at the same school until she's about 18 if I want to but I doubt I can afford it.

I'm finding the whole school thing a real mystery and have no idea where to start or when I should get her name down for good local schools.

If this is too hijack-y please just ignore me and I'll post a question.