How to talk about DD's abilities without sounding irritating/precious

[clemette]

Dear all,
DD (4.5) starts full-time in reception in January. She is almost the only one that won't have been to the school pre-school/ attended part-time this autumn.
The pre-school that she is at keep stressing to us that her abilities are unusually high for her age, but TBH I am not sure if they are. She can count to 100, count back from 30, count to 20 in French, can do addition and subtraction, read simple words, write clearly etc etc Most of this she has learnt a her very small pre-school.
Anyway, we went to the open evening for her new school and the reception teacher was talking about how they were working with the children to identify shapes. I was wondering whether it was worth phoning the teacher to talk about what DD can do, or whether I should just trust their professionalism to see that she might be a little beyond what they are doing with the majority.
I don't think she is G+T particularly (and working in secondary education realise that children often even out eventually). I also don't want to present myself as an ultra pushy parent, as we have really tried not to be and let DD develop as she will.
I just wondered if anyone had any advice?
Thanks.

The truth is probably somewhere in between, like everything in life: some school are good with G&T, others are awful, some G&T children need a lot of extra input, others don't, in some children early development is a sign of giftedness that will stay with them, in others it is just a case of being a bit early with things that others will catch up on very soon. You can't know any of this as yet , so the best thing you can do is to go in with an open mind, be as positive as you can, and see how things develop.

In your case, being able to do those things at 4.5 is not necessarily a sign of G&T, so it's more a question of whether her teacher can accommodate what she already knows without boring her. It may be that she is also gifted, and then you'll have to see if the teacher can accommodate that. Open mind.

Just curious what would be the difference between being gifted and just maybe having been taught a bit more at home combined with brightness?

I think you're hitting a nail on the head there thegrammerpolice. A fair few children start school with abilities like the OP's, but a chunk of those will be because it's been taught at nursery/ pre-school. Some obviously will be genuinely bright, but others will just have learned because they've been taught. For example, my son could easily count to 100 before he started school. He loved doing it, so we taught him. Doesn't mean much and certainly doesn't mean he's G&T. He wasn't interested in writing or reading so started school being able to do neither.

The school definition of gifted I think is the top 10% of teh class in academic subjects.Which of course doesn't mean gifted at all.
The difference between an intelligent child and a hot housed child is very quickly apparent.

The school definition of gifted I think is the top 10% of teh class in academic subjects.Which of course doesn't mean gifted at all.
The difference between an intelligent child and a hot housed child is very quickly apparent.

What are the differences - how would they be apparent (I don't doubt that they would be apparent by the way, just interested in what the characteristics would be e.g. ability to learn very quickly, thinking skills?)

We have taught ds a bit but he does seem genuinely bright and a quick learner (e.g. learnt 10 tricky words in a few days, with only about two mins each day on them all if that - bad example as that could just be he has a good visual memory) but maybe I'm deluding myself in a pfb way!

thegrammerpolicesic, I think the difference is in the way the child thinks and the questions they ask. It's the difference between the need to be drip fed the information or they are genuinely curious and inquisative.

I would have thought there must be more to a G%T child than being curious and inquisitive. Ds is that and asks endless detailed questions about whatever he wants to know. People generally comment on how 'bright' he is but I think that is because he is confident and will ask lots of questions. He is classed as average by his teacher.

I did also add the "the way the child thinks" and not really asking questions but what type of questions they ask.

DS 14 yr 9 is curious and inquisitive, but he is also and abstract thinker and his teachers say he stands out and have already said he should be thinking about oxbridge.

That makes sense as I would think that the concept of abstract thinking is linked to emotional maturity so differentiating from the usual 'why' questioning that all children do.

She will be assessed with the first 2 weeks of starting there and at that point they will see if she is way in front of her peers. If it's a box standard state school, they will have limited resources to cater for a G&T child. Good luck.

Is she an only DC? I think that if you have only one and they spend a lot of time with adults then they appear to be very bright early on. My DS1 was an only at 5yrs, and although he had lots of friends most of his time was spent playing and talking to adults. The next 2 are very close in age and so they amused each other-they were just as bright, it just didn't stand out the way it did with DS1.

Just curious what would be the difference between being gifted and just maybe having been taught a bit more at home combined with brightness?
I think you're hitting a nail on the head there thegrammerpolice.

There is no universally accepted definition for gifted. You can call any average child a gifted one. However, the DCSF has a definition as far as the G&T program is concerned. And it has nothing to do with "being taught a bit more at home" or performing in the top 10% of the class. They are both misconceptions that a lot of teachers labour under.

The OP used the term G&T. For the G&T program, the top 10% (recommended) of children based on ability and potential are considered "gifted". So you can be at the bottom of the class and be gifted. Not "gifted" as in Hawking or Einstein but "gifted" in the sense of exceptionally able. The term gifted is used not as an award to those children but to use the highest abilities in the class as a foundation for setting teacher achievement benchmarks.

some school are good with G&T, others are awful
As cory says, the truth about G&T implementation is somewhere in between. From my extensive research - and numerous studies done into G&T implementation - the national picture is that "somewhere in-between" is nearer the awful end of the scale.

I mentioned her NOT being G&T so this wouldn't turn into a thread about G&T. I don't want her labelled, I want her to be happy and fulfilled in all she does, and if she is anything like me, she will only feel fulfilled if she is stretched and challenged. Ho hum...
piscesmoon she isn't an only but she is the oldest and has had a huge amount of grandparent input. Interestingly, reading other comments about hothousing, her pre-school is decidely un-academic which is why we chose it. She has been in the same nursery for over four years and it is them telling us that she is the "cleverest they have ever had". All of her "progress" comes from curiosity (and I suspect a tiny bit of precociousness, apparent today when she was reciting French to the local librarian and talking to the lollipop lady about the imaginary magnet that keeps the moon in the same place).

Anyway, thanks for all input.

I'd be a bit concerned about the fact there will be 60 children in reception, tbh. Is there nowhere smaller she could go to?

Maybe if the pre-school was un-academic she will now mix with a much wider range and she will encounter many more DCs like herself.
I missed the part about 60 children in reception, but if there are that number there must be 3 classes. Out of 60 DCs there must be quite a few who are well above average.
There would be no harm in mentioning, in a chatty way, to the teacher that she is looking forward to school and can already......

Labels: I don't know what they do in the secondary school where you work but in primary they don't stick tags on DCs foreheads or make them wear special G&T caps. In many schools even the parents aren't told that their DC is on the register.

You think she's intelligent and go to great lengths to tell us how intelligent she is (albeit using third parties to get this message - "her school say her abilities are unusually high", "she is the cleverest they've ever had" etc), but try hard for us not to get the impression that you think she's intelligent (she's not G&T, not in the top 10%).

Either she's intelligent or she's not! Have the cake or eat it.

What's worse than being a pushy parent is being a pushy parent (want DD "stretched and challenged") and pretending that you aren't (we choose a non-academic school, just want her to be happy).

We had similar comments about ds at his nursery. He is now average at school because most of his classmates were at the nursery section of the school and did a lot more 'school work' at nursery than ds. You may find similar when your dd starts school.

I also wouldn't hold too much by the assessments they do. Ds could read and write when he started school but pretended he couldn't. I only found out in a chance conversation with his teacher who either had not read or did not believe the profile she'd received from his nursery.

If she went to an un-academic pre-school she has probably mixed with DCs whose parents are more interested in the mixing, playing, co operating than counting, reading etc. I think this is a good thing, I don't think they want to start formal learning too early. However I think that many parents who have a DC that they consider to be bright will have looked for a nursery/preschool that is going to push them on and will have dismissed your preschool as not suitable.(they did when mine were that age). Once she gets to school they will all be mixed together and she will not stand out as being exceptional. She might still be exceptional, but if so it will be picked up fairly soon.

Mathanxiety, it is our local primary and is very well regarded so we feel happy about that. The primary is actually bigger than the secondary (I work in catchment) but is extremely well led and the children seem rounded and happy.
Not entirely sure why dadatlarge is being so antagonistic. I think she is bright but admit to not really knowing as she is our first, she is currently big fish in a little pond, and I am happily aware that lots of children progress and slow at different rates. My qustion was about her abilities AT THIS MOMENT and how people have managed the transition to primary school. However, feel free to ascertan from that that I am the "worst" kind of pushy mother.
for what it is worth, I believe in the comprehensive principle and that effective teachers can differentiate appropriately for all children once they know their abilities. I feel happy now that this will happen without my input.

I would just take the middle way-don't phone the teacher, but bring into conversation if you get the chance. In my local school the reception teacher does home visits before they start-this seems an excellent idea because it is a good chance to raise any concerns and for the teacher to see what they can do/do do at home. Is this unusual?

My qustion was about her abilities AT THIS MOMENT
You've been told about her current abilities by the pre-school. So she's either very intelligent like they say, or she's not. If she is then she'll be in the top 10% of her class and the school is required by law to put her on the G&T register whether you like it or not.

I guess my point is that your best option is to get off that high horse about not being a pushy parent. If you've got an intelligent child and want her stretched and challenged in the state system then you're going to have to do some pushing. And it'll likely start right at reception where you go in to tell the teacher that DD really does need to move up an Oxford Reading Tree level because she's bored stiff with the picture books.

In the years to come if she does land with a teacher who isn't giving her the "stretching and challenging" she needs - which WILL happen - then being in the G&T puts you in a stronger position to get her what she needs. My advice would have been to ditch those pre-conceived notions you seem to have about G&T and go read up a bit more on what it is and how it can help your DD, but if you are now happy that the school will do the right thing then great, problem solved

Your concerns are very understandable.

DAL is antagonistic because he has had a bad experience of his own, with his very gifted son not getting the stimulation he needed. And he feels this is a repetition of his own similarly unfortunate experience, which completely turned him off school.

This can happen. Then again, all sorts of other scenarios are equally possible.

I would say about half of dd's friends were reading and doing sums when they started school at 4. (Dd was not reading, but was verbally very advanced and was doing the sums and was also fully bilingual).

Our experience was different from DALs: our children had a very good time in infants and did not get bored. It must quite simply have been a good school with good teachers (ordinary state, not particularly high with Ofsted). Afaik none of dd's advanced friends have lost interest in school either.

So it's impossible to predict what your dd's experience will be like.

It is also impossible to predict how your dd will react to it. People have such different temperaments: what riles one child will be shrugged off by another.

My dd has gone through various stages where she has been well ahead, but it doesn't seem to worry her. She has found other friends who share her interests but also enjoys the friendship of girls who are not very interested in learning. I was well ahead of my class: I was not only a fluent reader but was studying two foreign languages by the time we started school at 6 (educated abroad); when English classes started I knew more than the teacher, but for some reason it never worried me. And it didn't turn me off work either. School was still a good experience and I have always enjoyed studying.

So noone can predict what is going to happen to your dd. It will depend on the school and it will depend on her.

But for the time being, I would relax and wait.

Like others have said- midway. There will be parents evenings, you will have a chance to talk to the teacher about it then.

DAL is antagonistic because he has had a bad experience of his own, with his very gifted son not getting the stimulation he needed.

Please don't patronise me. I say what I say about G&T not because I "had a bad experience", but because I know what I'm talking about. As you are aware, I've done extensive research on G&T and the teaching of gifted children, spoken about G&T provision with numerous teachers all over the country (including my teacher wife, my teacher mother and the inevitable numerous teachers/heads/deputy heads in our friend circle). I've also worked with the LA on the revision of their Local Authority Quality Standards and have been helping DS's school get up to scratch with G&T (and the CQS) on their request. I'm the only parent who was invited to the last G&T conference in our county. And I used to own a school.

If I say something about G&T - or warn someone about what they may find - it's not because I'm some idiot who extrapolates his individual experience across the whole nation.

I'm very glad your DCs got into a good school with good teachers, cory. I'm even happier that they are not bored. But you are right, it's impossible to predict what someone else's DD might experience.