DD2 injury after barefoot pe very angry

[raphaelbutler]

hi my dd2 was doin a pe lesson which should have been done outside because it was high impact it was done inside - mayb raining. they did it barefoot on a hard floor without mats. they had to do various activities for a minute at a time and write down how they felt when she did bunny hops she wrote my feet are hurtin when she got to star jumps she wrote my feet are really achin. from that day 7months ago she has been in chronic pain in the balls of both feet. she had damaged her sesamoid bones and the growth plate in both foot. when i saw dd2 head she said mayb dd2 had a preexisting condition she has had an mri and they have said its an impact injury. she is unable to walk far and it has made our life completley different - it breaks my heart i feel the school is totally responsible. what mum would tell their dd to go outside and jump on the concrete for minutes at a time - any comments

[raphael7]

It seems the guideline is high impact should wear protective footwear. please check your schools this has been devastating for my child

[claudialyman]

Its very good of you to come back and let people know what the guideline is so that they can look into it with their schools if they want to. It must have been difficult for you when this thread turned into a barefoot/shoes/underlying conditions/no underlying condition etc debate and fair play to you for a) following up on it to get more clarification and b) coming back on and giving people the info.

I know it doesnt help your daughter at all but I imagine you will feel better that youve done all you can and it may prevent something similar from happening to another child. I,m still following up on what happened to my son as although steps are being taken to reduce the risk of him specifically getting injured in school again, I am very aware of the other children who could expereince something very similar to him. Hope half-term goes easier than you expect for your daughter and yourself.

[mrz]

Sorry could you tell me where you found the guidelines for school PE from?

[Goblinchild]

I'm interested too, because the directgov website is saying:

Gymnastics and Dance

ß Work in bare feet is strongly recommended, provided the floor is clean and splinter free, since this will:

? Maximise the exercise value and promote the development of strong, healthy feet.
? Enable tactile sensation with the soles of the feet on working surfaces and thereby increase safety.
? Promote work of quality through extension of the ankles and toes.

So if there's a reputable, more up-to-date and appropriate recommendation, I'd like to know

[mrz]

That is the guidance we have Goblinchild also it's worth noting that Sesamoid and growth plate injuries are usually from overuse and these are typically gradually occurring injuries (unless from an accident - fall or a knock) and would unlikely arise from 1min of bunnyhops.

[raphael7]

safe practice in PE and school sport endorsed by the DCSF is afpe's 'Safe Practice in Physical Education and School Sport 2008' Page 101 paras14.2.6 - 14.2.10

Just to confirm mrz my dd2 did not have any problem prior to the lesson where she did the high impact activity barefoot. Her injury has been confirmed by the pediatric orthapedic surgeon whose care she is under and MRI reports. It is an impact injury. An 8 year olds bones are still calcifying at this age. She did have a gradual development of pain over weeks or months. She left the hall in extreme pain from an impact injury.

Just to confirm my dd2 was not doing dance or gymnastics

[raphael7]

a childs bone would react to impact and would not differentiate between an activity they have been asked to do or a fall or knock. Unfortunately the circuit training barefoot added to 1 minute of starjumps and 1 minute of bunnyhops was enough to cause damage to my dd2 sessamoids and growth plate. I wish with every ounce of my body that this did not happen.

[raphael7]

claudialyman thank u xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[alwayslookingforanswers]

well I've just found this

"Pupils should preferably be in bare feet if it is safe to do so when participating in dance or gymnastics though there are many forms of dance and some styles may require footwear. If the dance style is high impact, the footwear should have support to prevent injury. Some floor surfaces may not be conducive to barefoot work. Any footwear worn should be appropriate for the activity, in good repair, close fitting and provide secure footing. Pupils and staff should check the floor prior to the activity to ensure it is safe and suitable"

from the afpes FAQ's (referencing the section that the OP mentions).

Can't find a free copy of it online (and I'm not paying £45 to read it to check what it says in full)

[jomummy2]

I am a teacher and for all PE lessons our children are expected to bring indoor pumps and outdoor trainers in order to take part. Why wasn't she wearing indoors pumps?

[alwayslookingforanswers]

tbh I can't imagine the indoor plimsolls that 99% of kids seem to wear in PE being much good in terms of protection anyhow.

I remember using them at school, and I watch the kids here doing PE in them and it's not much different than trying to do PE in your slippers imo

[mrz]

I am also a teacher and all guidance says bare feet indoors

SAFE PRACTICE IN PHYSICAL EDUCATION AND SCHOOL SPORT HS/ECS/039

DATED: JANUARY 2009

27.9 Clothing

Care should be taken that the clothing and footwear are compatible with the activity.

For reasons of safety children should:

indoors:-

i) be in bare feet or change into safe non-slip footwear;

baalpe (British association of advisers and lecturers in physical education) who provide guidance for the DCSF

" Work in bare feet is strongly recommended, provided the floor is clean and splinter free, since this will:"

I'm terribly sorry for your daughter's pain and obvious suffering.

[raphael7]

The footware was unfortunately not compatible as it was high impact. If this is the only guideline above then it is wholly inadequate. If the activity had been assessed then my dd2 would have had adequate non-slip footwear. I am appalled that this is the only guidelines that teachers follow and it needs to be addressed. What is your experience of the 'Safe Practice in Physical Education and School Sport 2008' do you not use this

[bloss]

Message withdrawn

[cascade]

Im a PE teacher (secondary) and for safety reasons pupils participate in gymnastics and dance in bare feet. Pupils would never take part in circuit training or indoor games without trainers. I teach a lot of health related fitness and when we do circuit training all exercises are performed on a mat.

[raphael7]

Again it was circuit training over a 45 minute period. Her consultant has confirmed that she had no underlining problem and the injury was caused by high impact activity with barefoot. She was 8 years old. The point is they are `young' and thier bones have not calcified. The activity was done by the other 3 year group classes outside with foot protection my dd2 was done inside because it was raining. I have contacted the afpe and shall now contact the baaple. My dd2 had all the adequate footwear they were told to do it barefoot as they had to move the lesson inside

[cascade]

Rapheal7 may I ask what is it that you want to achieve from this?

[alwayslookingforanswers]

though that you children even get 45 minutes PE at school in one go. In YR3/4 they're still lucky to get 1/2hr at the absolute most by the time they're all changed, and have allowed time to get changed again.

[raphael7]

cascade there were no mats down and the activity was done barefoot. The other 3 classes of that year group did the activity outside. The reason my dd2 did the actvity inside was that it was raining that day. It was a group of activities that the children did to look at how activity effected their bodies and my dd2 wrote that her feet hurt then her feet where really aching. When my dd1 did the same lesson she did the activity outside. I think a number of teachers have posted on this thread due to the defensiveness of some of the posts which I cannot understand. In any other thread would the OP have to keep defending or explaining that their dd2 was hurt. The guidelines posted are wholly inadequate and I have contacted both the afpe and baaple as there seems to be a very grey area regarding what is suitable activity to be done inside barefoot. What made the activity my dd2 did to be ok outside with trainers but inside it was done barefeet. The activity was no different but the foot protection was. This should not happen to any child

[raphael7]

just to clarify the afpe has taken over from the baaple so if you are using baaple guidelines please check that you have updated them to the afpe

[alwayslookingforanswers]

so the one from last year has overtaken the one from this year?

[raphael7]

It just needs to be from the afpe as they are now in charge of policy

[raphael7]

cascade where do your guidelines come from? are they from the school, the county or countrywide. Is it interpretation which decides the venue for the activity.

[cascade]

The thing is r7 your investing alot of energy and anger that may simply not get you anywhere.
When you risk assess you try to limit the danger, but risk assessment cannot prevent it.

In gymnastics and dance we do alot of high impact work with bare feet, but the bigger risk is if the pupils where footwear there is a bigger risk of an accident.

99.9% of children will be fine with no footwear and your dd case is highly unusual.

If it was me I would try to get the school to change policy on footwear and they need a clear policy on what type of activity will require barefeet/trainers.

I hope this helps and Iwould be extremelly angry also and completely see where you are coming from.

[cascade]

I dont know to be honest (PE teacher jugdement) When I trained 12 years ago you followed BAALPA. To be honest its just commen knowledge in PE circles.