Who was in the massive queue for Tiffins last night?

[deaddei]

Brought Kingston practically to a standstill.
My dh was particularly infuriated by the children clutching verbal reasoning papers- why?
Dear God.

Omg, it sounds truly horiffic. Am shocked.

at bibbitybobbityCAT. Are you shocked PurpleEgluggedblood's friend moved up North and to the local comp?

We didn't make the headteacher's speech last evening either as we got late and wanted DS to see the school. Entry on the tour was through the grottier bits but it ended in the nicer buildings. We've seen 3 other schools locally and thought the facilities were so-and-so overall but all the more impressive the teaching if they get such fantastic results.

What bail-out are you talking about?

There was no wine this year. I can't remember last year. It wasn't so packed last year, in fact I haven't seen any other school so packed on an open evening.

I'm so glad to live up north where the primary meaning of 'Tiffin' is a sort of chocolate biscuit cake

Forgive me if I'm missing the point, but if it's so incredibly selective, surely the lucky winners could just as well get scholarships to (better resourced) private schools?

GrimmaTheNome - you made me .

As a Northerner that is what I always think that as well. The other thing I think is about is the Carry on film "Carry on Up the Kyber" where they always have Tiffin in the afternoon.

But they wouldn't be full scholarships. I think that 50% is usually the top academic award for most of the indies, with I guess Westminster being an exception. Tiffins is free.

Well nearly free.

Some private schools give 100% bursaries (my daughter's for instance).

I think more schools will be going this way.

My brother went to Tiffin and loved it. Back then, only children from the borough could apply.

But bursaries are usually means tested?

Bit of a hijack sorry - but I wondered if anyone could point me to a leavers' destination list for Tiffin girls? Can't find it (am thick) on website....?

Yes, so if you get a 100% bursary (at this school) that means that your household probably earns less than £20,000 or so.

I suspect that the vast majority of Tiffin boys are in households where they wouldn't qualify under a means test. For a household earning £45k or more Tiffins would be cheaper than almost any comparable bursary/scholarship in the vicinity at 11. The best scholarships that I have seen tend to be given at 13, but of course you pretty much have no chance of applying unless you have spent at least 2 years at prep school.

ABetaDad - here are a few reasons, as mentioned by others too:

1. scholarships at a nearby private school are up to £1500 a year, which is less than 10% of the fees they charge per year. DS is neither particularly arty nor musical. Still leaves a hefty £15000 a year to cough up. 2)I read up on the bursaries conditions and we wouldn't qualify. They don't specify an income but take everything into account, including for example if you have many expensive holidays a year, cars, other houses etc. Fair enough, obviously, and we don't have all that, but we still wouldn't qualify. 3)There'd still be an entrance exam, so your child would still go through all that stress. About 60% of the places are usually taken by children who'd already attended their earlier years at the same school, so competition is likely worse.

Actually (controversial emoticon here) Tiffin Boys results at A-level are not that impressive considering how incredibly selective the school is, particularly if you compare them to local independent schools (eg Hampton) that are much easier to get into. Tiffin's results are a good deal stronger in sciences and maths (though this is perhaps to be expected in a boys' school) and languages etc at A-level are relatively poorly represented.

Obviously they're good results pretty much for free and for many people their only chance of a selective education, but if you select very bright children you'd be doing something wrong if they weren't.

Singersgirl: Maybe you have some insider information about a particular set of results in languages but on the league tables, overall, Hampton school doesn't appear anywhere (or my searching is crap). Amongst local schools there's only two that are above the 21st position Tiffin has (ignoring girls' school as not much good for DS).

I agree with selecting v bright children so doing well but that's an accusation to be levelled at all sorts of schools, esp. the fee-charging ones, as they often have their feeder pre-prep or preps or whatever they call them.

tables from here

"Tiffin's results are a good deal stronger in sciences and maths (though this is perhaps to be expected in a boys' school) "

I think you might wan to check out the Tiffin Girls results, which are higher than Tiffin boys.

No, I was just comparing exam results listed on individual school sites; a lot of schools withdrew from the league tables this year. Frankly at this level it doesn't make much difference, as all these highly selective schools do well, and I admit that exam results are just one (narrow) indication of the success of a school. However, because I like to check things out , here's what I meant.

(Disclaimer: I don't have a child at either Hampton or Tiffin - I chose Hampton simply because I know more like 1 in 5 get in there.)

Your link's to the GCSE table; I was talking about A-level, which I think is a better guide to achievement. A quick look at the Hampton website tells you that 93% of their exam passes were at A or B this year, compared to 84% for Tiffin Boys (according to The Times' league table Tiffin is something like 63rd place for A-level). Comparably selective private schools (ie fewer than 1 in 10 candidates getting in) are getting 98% A and Bs at A-level.

My point about languages is that not very many Tiffin boys take them - so just 34 exam entries in all modern and classical languages at Tiffin compared to 134 for comparable subjects at Hampton. There are just 24 entries in English literature compared to 54 at Hampton. I think the schools are roughly the same size, with about 10 boys more a year at Hampton.

I'm sure Tiffin is an excellent school and DS2 might well sit the exam in a couple of years' time. You might very sensibly argue, too, that, even if you could afford it, a few points at A-level aren't worth £120,000!

I've wasted far too much time checking my facts now, so must get on with some work!

Athene, sorry, as far as the science and maths went, I just meant that boys traditionally prefer science and maths, not that they're better at it than girls.
We could get into a large discussion on gender bias here...

Thanks, Singersgirl. I should have linked to A-levels, just put the first one that came in the search engine. Now I'll have to visit Hampton's as well next year, you know?! I would be in the camp saying that "even if you could afford it, a few points at A-level aren't worth £120,000". DS is in yr 5 so there's still time to choose and get things clear in my mind. (Hopefully, in his as well.)

Since DH and I are both arts graduates (modern languages, English and postgraduate drama between us) and since the DSs look at this early age to be arts-biased, I happened to notice the languages figures once before. It's angels on a pinhead, really, since they're all good schools.

CristinaTA - totally agree with your reasons and not criticisng anyone for wanting to get their child into Tiffin.

We moved out of the South East because we could and even though our DSs were at a school consistently in the 'Top Ten' in the league tables.

We deliberately put our DS1 and DS2 in a much much worse league table scHool, only slighty selective and 90% girls versus 10% boys. People think we are insane but we know what we want and we deliberately rejected the hell of coaching kids to death to get into top grammar or even top independent schools in the South East.

More to the point I have had a 1/2 bottle of Sancerre for lunch so feeling quite opinionated.

Nothing wrong with opinionated, ABD! As for coaching and all that jazz, it's not something I ever saw myself considering years ago but as the time gets closer... I know it's not worth years of coahing and competiotion for a young child only so he can become an accountant or lawyer or banker (no offence intended). Esp. when what HE wants to do is be a footballer.

So what is your view having been to the open evening and what happens if your DS does not get in?

I have a good friend who has a DD who failed by a few places to get into Lady Eleanor Holles (fee paying) so I know the angst this causes and have huge sympathy.