How many people feel that children should not be touched in primary school?

[jennifersofia]

Do you feel children should be touched

1. not at all, ever
2. occasionally, depending on circumstance and age. If so, what age and which circumstance?

I am a primary teacher and I touch children (shoulder, back, hand) but I am concerned that some parents might feel this to be inappropriate.

My DD is in nursery at a local primary school and I would not leave her somewhere where they had a no touch policy as children of this age need comfort. The staff at DDs nursery often pick up and cuddle the children and their siblings. DDs little brother had a cuddle from the teacher only today. I do think we are paranoid in this country anout this sort of stuff.

Ixia, how would you feel if your child hugged another one and they pushed her away hard, or hit her to keep her off?
Not being nasty, that was how my son reacted to anyone in the playground who touched him when he wasn't expecting or wanting contact.
Some children in my class have complained about being hugged and kissed when they didn't want to be, they felt their space had been infringed.

I am a yr 1 teacher and I would hate it if I couldn't touch the children at all. Lots are naturally affectionate and will throw their arms round me in the playground. Although it is frowned by the management at my school I will hug them back because I feel that to not do so would feel like rejection to them and I believe that children learn best from people they feel secure with, who they know have their best interests at heart. To not hug an upset child would feel horribly unnatural to me - although some children don't respond well to hugs, so I will always ask first whether they want one.

The suncream issue, however, is more to do with medication - if a child develops an allergy or reacts to it - agree or not, that is the reasoning in my school's policy.

Oh - and I do talk to the children about touching each other. The blanket rule at school is 'keep your hands and feet to yourself' which covers all invading of personal space without permission. We do stress with children how important it is that they do not touch a child who does not want to be touched. I think that's a good lesson to learn anyway.

Goblinchild and DameEdnaAverage - Yes, I can see that and I know deep down that it's the right thing for them to have done. I'm a v. untactile person, can't stand all this kissy cheek business between adults. I was glad that DD seemed to be different, now I wonder if she'll turn out like me.....I'm rambling ....pfb and all that.....

She'll be fine, she will just need to learn that if someone says 'No' it's not nice or friendly to keep hugging. her understanding that other people have different boundaries will kick in.
She'll probably end up running around holding hands with a best friend, playing clapping games and being tactile with those who can cope.

You asked if it made me self conscious, Pyrocanthus (v. topical name, btw). No, it doesn't because I touch automatically, I don't think I could not - pat on the back, arm around, hand on hand to guide pen, etc.
It just that the 'tap on the hand/ slap on the hand' thread got me thinking. Although I felt what the teacher did was wrong (from the information given), I was a bit freaked out by the vociferous quality of people's responses.
It is around the issues of discipline that I have questions about touching. E.g. with a boy who will not stay sitting down when I am trying to work with him, holding him on the forearm for a short time, or if a student repeatedly skips steps as they go up and down the stairs, holding their hand (when they don't want to be holding my hand) to help guide them so they walk up steps appropriately. Is this sort of thing okay? Is it inappropriate? I worry that I am too close to it to see.
Also many of the parents of the children in the school that I teach are from a very different culture to mine, so I wonder also if they have a very different point of view to other adults touching their children. I know how I feel about people touching my own children in school (I definitely want them too!), but that is my own middle class western point of view.
The responses on this thread are reassuring though.

Through peer massage, we teach children in my school the way to touch each other appropriately. We teach "gentle touch", but always encourage the children to ask each other before they stroke, hug or touch each other. If a child is upset, I would automatically comfort them by hugging, putting and arm round, stroking their hair etc. (I teach Yr 2). If I was going to massage a child as part of our twice weekly massage sessions, I would always ask permission.

We also also touch as a way of soothing an anxious or figety child in assembly or during teaching times on the carpet. You will often see a teacher or TA sitting behind a child, using the massage techniques we've all be taught. We've found that it calms our children down helps them to relax and concentrate.

As far as I am concerned, 'massage techniques' are the exact opposite of spontaneous, compassionate touch. Having to ask permission, having to be taught how to do it, 'using' it to calm children down inevitably makes more informal, spontaneous touch seem out of order and 'inappropriate'. It also makes too much of the sensation side of things for the recipient of the massage, rather than touch being a way of the giver expressing their human empathy. If my kids' school proposed introducing massage, I would oppose it and tell them to get on with hair-ruffling, cuddling, face-touching whenever they want to etc. Massage for kids is creepy!

Some of the children I work with are very agressive. They do need to be taught about gentle touch and massage is an ideal way of doing this. We often see them using the same gentle movements spontaneously in the playground as well.

Of course we adults use spontaneous touch as well as part of our everyday behaviour, but for some children, in some schools, massage is an appropriate approach. Using massage techniques in no way "makes more informal, spontaneous touch seem out of order and 'inappropriate'".

Justgetonwithit - Your school is obviously not one in which aggression is a problem - lucky you. Massage for kids is certainly not creepy. Have you ever seen it being done? Have you done any reading about it?

Adults should not seek touch from children, ie asking them to sit on their lap or asking them for a hug or a kiss. But of course if a child initiates it it is fine and would be awful if it wasn't allowed.

Teachers and TAs should definately be able to touch, hug, hair ruffle, etc children who need comfort/reassurance.

When it comes to disciplining touch (for want of a better expression) I'd be quite happy with a teacher holding my DCs hand firmly to make sure they walked upstairs properly or whatever - if I am taking a friend's son home I often hold his hand when he doesn't want to as he is rubbish at walking safely by the road - I think it is perfectly justified.

Not sure about the not-sitting-down-boy scenario... if they are not calm enough to sit down and do some work will holding their arm make any difference? I wouldn't want my DC forced to 'sit down and learn' in case it puts them off, iyswim. But equally you do need to learn to sit nicely - I am lucky that this is one of DS's main skills but if he wasn't doing it I wouldn't mind the teacher momentarily pressing him back down if that makes sense?

One case where you might need physical restraint is with the aggressive child. I would be quite happy about my dcs being restrained in this situation (not that they've ever done it, but they have been on the receiving end). I wouldn't even mind a small child of mine being made to sit down, not necessarily "made to sit down and ^learn", if they are too upset, but "made to sit down and stop ruining other people's learning".

I have only read the OP.

I think this is a horrible thing to even ask. I dropped my 3 yr old DD of at nursery this morning, she gave her "kay" worker a cuddle and snuggled up to her on the bean bag, like she would me - what changes when they get to 4?

If my DD needed / wanted some extra comfort for any reason, misses Me, hurts herself etc i wouls want there to be some one, i.e. her teacher that could give that to her.

You are not just providing education, but care.

Oh, and for what its worth - My best mate is a secondary school teacher, and has had to cuddle her pupils at 14 / 15 yrs one poor kid came into class and colapsed sobbing beause her dog had been put down. My friend said she couldnt stop herself from giving this girl a hug, it was instictive to comfort her.

I know as someone who works in a school though you do have to be careful but I sit children on my knee as and when it is approreate.
I rember once I took a hild out who had tried to throw a table he was so upset because his mum had left and he didn;t know how to control all these emotions bubbling inside of him. I asked him did he want a cuddle and he came and hesat on my knee and he cried and cried and cried, whilst I rocked him back and forth until he stopped. We were there nearly 30 mins butr it was what he needed at the time was I wrong to hold him untill he stopped crying I dont think so but some would.

i volunteer at a preschool and i often have a lo on my lap or need to pick them up if they are upset and had to speak to the owner regarding things , i felt as a mum and human that when i had a child in my arms whilst they were either falling asleep or crying or just having a hug to kiss them on the forehead, i had to check that was ok and even questioning it made me realise that this world has become a massively shit place where people can hurt each other,

DD used to run up to her reception teacher and fling her arms round her and hold her hand to go into school.

If they fell over they got lots of hugs if they needed them.

It's normal human compassion.

When my first 2 were in reception I gave express permission that they be cuddled if they needed/wanted one. They said they did. My youngest has been told to not stroke the teachers hand and kiss her leg.

Ok, sorry if I begin to rant, but NO school is advised to have a 'no touch' policy.

As a teacher, you have a duty of care to keep children safe, and act in loco parentis

Legally, a teacher can intervene physically if:

A child is injuring others

A child is injuring themselves

A child is damaging property

A child is behaving in a way that is likely to disrupt good order.

Any physical intervention taken must be reasonable, proportionate and necessary.

Sometimes touch can be a calming influence, but this must be professionally judged on each individual's history by the teacher.

IMO, the legal guidelines should be clearer- for example, 'damage to property' could be breaking a pencil in two; hopefully no teacher worth their salt would restrain a child for that!

I agree it wouldn't be natural for children not to be touched at all by teachers. My dauhter is in primary school and often has accidents and has to be changed, so the teacher needs to do that. She also cuddles the teachers which is lovely.

Message withdrawn

My class of year 5s regularly come up and give me a hug - mostly girls I might add!! Clearly they aren't concerned, and neither am I. In fact, my DS was at a birthday party of one of his school friends and when I arrived to collect him, one of my pupils (her sister was at the party) ran over and threw her arms around me infront of her mum. Her mum just smiled at me! I think some people just get over zealous with interpretation.

I am liking secret number 3
as and when a child needs it.