How many activities does your Year 2 child do after school?

[AtheneNoctua]

I just want to make sure I don't push her too hard. But I also don't want her to miss out on things she might benfit from learning. Please tell me what you think of the schedule.

School (obviously) 8:50 - 3:15 M-F

Mon lunchtime - free play
Tues lunchtime - choir*
Wed lunchtime - book club*
Thurs lunchtime - school council*
Fri lunchtime - free play

Mon after school - 30 min violin lesson* followed by Kumon Math (also about 30 min)
Tues - tennis
Wed - nothing after school
Thurs - nothing after school
Fri - dance (ballet, modern, and tap - 3 classes back to back)

Items marked with "*" we are considering but have not yet committed.

I think that if you want to seriously learn an instrument then you are probably organising too many activities because your dd will need to do a bit of practise each day.

At the age of 6, then five minutes a day is probably about right and the parent/nanny should be involved to encourage them.

A lot of music teachers think that year 3 is the best time to start (unless of course you are very talented and going to be a Young Musician of the Year by 12).

I would also give the Kumon maths a miss..you do maths at school so it is nice after school to do something different. (like go to Brownies or play with siblings, or just sit down and draw)

It does sound quite a lot & it sounds as though your dd doesn't have a great love of the activities themselves if she only wants to do what her friend does rather than for their own sake if you see what I mean.

The dcs school (which is full of quite kids who do tons of extra curricular stuff) offered very little in the way of lunchtime and after school clubs before year 3.

On the lunchtime things I think I'd do this... I'd talk to your dd and ask what she thinks about choir, if she'd prefer to go and sing or play outside and then ask her the same with book club and school council. Then I'd ask her to rate on a scale of 1-5 how much she wants to do each one and let her do 1 or 2 maximum (depending on the scoring - choose the top scoring one only, or two if there's a joint top. If 3 were joint top I'd ask her to select 2 of them as I think decision making is quite good for them at that age.) If none of them rate 4 or 5 then I'd say do none. Presumably none of it is set in stone - ie: she can sign up to new things next term & drop out at any stage. I know my two would have only chosen choir, if anything at that age.

My thoughts on the after school stuff is that both the kumon and violin have a considerable commitment outside of their scheduled slot, so that time needs to be considered as much (if not more than) the actual lesson time. I'd question the need for kumon if your dd is good at maths. With a new teacher this year it's unlikely the predudice against girls will continue and my opinion of kumon is that it's best for teaching arithmetic (which a bright child will pick up easily anyway) rather than abstract maths, playing a few 'mathsy' games as a family once a week instead would probably be more beneficial imo. Violin can be started up to year 4 (at least) and if she has a talent she will soon 'catch up' with those who started earlier, so if you wanted to wait until she could join the in-school lessons that might be a way forward there.

I really do agree that lots of extra curriculars are good and it's great to try out lots of different stuff, I just think 6 is slightly too young for such a busy schedule and she should only do things she's really keen to do.

I think the answer is quite clear in your sentence here:

' She wants to do book club. DH wants her to do book club. I want her to do choir. I want her to do school council because I think she is perfectly suited for it and will love it when she geets there.'

let her do bookclub because that is what she wants to do, the other 2 things are what *you8 want her to do

Hmmm...you can be good at maths but useless at mental arithmetic.

I was probably the best mathmetician in my top set at a comp. but was the worst at mental arithmetic.

I'm still pretty dire, despite using maths all the time in my job.

Kumon is definitely staying. I have seen good progress. And math is very important to me. She has been doing dance she was 2 and she's not quitting that one either. And, tennis... well we have been doing that one for three years so not giving it up either. I do have a tendancy to be a bit of an Alpha mum. So,I have tried to take on board all of the comments on this thread.

I think we will limit the lunch clubs to two, giving her 3 days to play with her friends. And I thinkI will probably give up the school council as it is offered in years 2-6 so she can pick it up next year if she wants to.

Regarding the time to pratice violin, I haven't really considered that for every day. It will be difficult. She could practise for about 30 minutes on Wed., Thurs., and may once on the weekend. I'm comming round to the view that this is maybe too much.

So, now, please (if I haven't bored you all by now) tell me what you think of the recorder. I'm thinking of just getting her a recorder and a CD (perhaps this one) and let her and her friend play with it on the day friend comes over but not sign her up for a formal lesson. This would at least give us a bit of a bridge to keep up music interest until she gets through the waiting list at school. She took "music makers" in year 1 with the intent that is was the introduction to the instrument that would follow in year 2. And that is why I don't want to sit out for a year while I wait for the violin lesson at school to come up.

All thoughts/criticisms welcome. Thank you everyone for the feedback so far.

Very true builde. Actually that was me too - never managed to learn my tables even and never on the 'top table' for maths until year 6 at primary school. At secondary I just got better and better the more abstract it got (& the more it didn't matter taking time over the actual calculations, but did matter figuring out what the calculations were).

I'd have thought that someone who is thought to be good at maths in year 2 though is actually good at arithmetic.

Athene, this is rather OT, but just wondering if you have challenged the school about their sexist attitude to maths. I went to a very sexist primary school (headmaster was given to statements like 'girls can't play chess' etc), and I really appreciate the fact that my parents were willing to stand up to the school and make a fuss about it.
Not to say that you shouldn't support your dd outside of school as well however seems best, but even if it doesn't change things, it might help her just to see someone making the point that these attitudes are not acceptable.

Sounds good Athene. No-one really enjoys school council imo. Recorder is a great little instrument, especially if her figer control is good enough to cover the holes succesfully. There's lots of teach yourself books/CDs about, I imagine it's just a case of choosing one you like the look of. Why not get 2 recorders (they're very cheap), so you or the nanny (she'll love you!) can play along too?

Agree with Takver - the school shouldn't be allowed to get away with sexism in maths (or anywhere else for that matter). What exactly do they do?

I would say go for it with the recorder, its an excellent instrument to start on, could you help and play with her [recalls with shame very much broken promise to spend 5 mins a day with dd playing recorder]. And you're less likely (warning, prejudice coming up) to throw it out of the window screaming than a violin.
(Be glad, by the way, that your dd only wants violin lessons, my dd has developed an ambition to play the harp. Where does one find harp teachers??? Am putting her off in the hope of a change of instrument )

Snorkie, I guess my dd is just odd. She came home very sad yesterday because she failed to get elected to school council. . .

Takver - they sometimes like the idea of it, but when they actually go they don't usually enjoy it. It doesn't take them long to realise that the students don't actually have much any influence and that the whole process is rather tedious.

I suppose there might be the occasional child somewhere who likes it though.

No, I have not challenged the school. I think it would do DD more harm than good to be honest. I tried to challenge their lack of nutrition in the school dinners when she was in nursery and I now refer to the head as Mrs. "Brick Wall" surname. Generally speaking, I like the head. But she didn't budge on a single point. Not one! I guess to some extent that is her job.

Anyway, I got the math attention I wanted by going to Kumon.

And what has happened is just that I have hear several of the teachers on separate occassions make comments like "boys are good at spacial awareness, and girls need a bit more time". Or "Boys especially need to run around and play outside". DD is petite and so cannot compete physically with some of the boys. But, she difintiely sporty and competitive. So these stereotypes, whilst they might serve many girls and many boys, will not serve her. She does have a girly side and she explores that in dance class.

"And what has happened is just that I have hear several of the teachers on separate occassions make comments like "boys are good at spacial awareness, and girls need a bit more time". Or "Boys especially need to run around and play outside"."

But both those statements are pretty reasonable. In general terms, boys do tend to be better at spatial awareness and need more physical activity. That doesn't mean that the teachers write off those who buck the trends.

Are you really sure that girls are given inferior access to maths as a subject? Because if that's the case I'd be very shocked and seriously considering a different school which puts a higher priority on inclusion.

Good lord. My DS (starting Y3 tomorrow) did piano and Beavers after school last year. He spent the rest of the time pootling around, building sofa houses with DD, being annoying and so on. He did have a lot of homework, which I wasn't keen on, but other than that, his time is his own. He didn't do any lunchtime activities (and there were zillions on offer). He thought that playing tig was more fun, and I would agree with him.

Rather than going for the recorder, why not just let her play with her friend when her friend comes over? Or is that just too unstimulating?

As an engineer with great spatial awareness and fantastic ability at 'difficult' maths(but poor mental arithmetic!)I get infuriated with people who go on about 'boys are good at spacial awareness'. It shouldn't even be discussed in 2009.

If this is going on at Primary level, then it is hardly surprising that girls give up Physics after GCSE. Have we made no progress in the last 50 years?

When my mother was at Cambridge there was one girl studying engineering. When I was there, approx. 10% of engineering students were girls. With these misogenistic attitudes still current at primary level I can't see things improving by the time my dds are 18.

And the engineering world misses out...even if boys are more mathematical, (which I doubt..I think it is cultural and that girls with good maths skills end up accountants and doctors) engineering needs soft skills such as communication and organisational skills.

Sorry to sound infuriated...!

Amen, Builde. When I was an engineering student in Houston, Texas I was one of about 3%. This was in mechanical. I think civil and chemical disciplines had slightly higher girl-boy ratios.

My DD happens to be pretty good at spacial relationships. They take a fair few buses and she has a good understanding of what is where, which bus number goes in which direction. She is pretty good at reading a map (esp. for a 6 year old). She likes to know how things work. As I am engineer and DH is not she thinks women fix cars and men drive them. I once had to break it to her gently that the AA man who was headed to fix daddy's car was PROBABLY going to be a man and she replied in shock "Mummy, no!!!!". I laughed. She was very young at the time but I knew I was not leading her into a life where girls learn to sit pretty and find a useful man. Girls can be useful too. And mine will be.

Builde - I spent some time at the weekend with my friends from uni - we are all female engineers - and their DHs and DCs. We were bemoaning similar things - including the fact that 'girly' lego, etc is so rubbish that it puts them off trying the proper stuff.

It's getting worse, IMO, not better - at least when I was a child toys were all primary coloured and gender-neutral instead of being either pink or camoflage - infuriating and very hard to combat.

You are allowed to sound infuriated, Builde! BUT (and I'm skating on thin ice here, because I don't have any evidence to hand), I'm pretty confident that there is evidence that boys tend to have better spatial awareness and this is quite likely to account for the higher proportion of boys/men in engineering & mathematical careers.

And before anyone gets on my case, my mother was a pioneering mathematician in Cambridge, working on the early computers, so I know full well that women can excel in maths! I am also married to an engineer and know that his spatial skills are awesome compared to mine - and I am also Cambridge-educated in a discipline that requires good spatial skills.

But the belief that these trends exist doesn't mean that anyone thinks girls should be given fewer chances to excel at maths, and I still hope that Athene's schools teachers are not really allowing that to happen in practice.

OP, when ds1 was in Yr 2 his favourite part of the day was playing with his friends at lunchtimes and playtimes. He only did one after school activity and then we had lots of time to have friends round after school. We did try out other activities when he asked to try them (tennis club, French, football iirc) but he only stuck with one of them.

Personally I would let her do Book Club if she wanted to, Maths since you feel it's important, and then ask her to choose one other after-school activity. She's not really going to miss out by waiting for violin lessons, is she? You could have a recorder at home for her to pick up if she felt so inclined.

My DS who is 6 (7 at weekend) does the following during the week:-

Monday - starting again soon for 6 weeks - after school club Spanish until 4 pm at school then 6 - 7.15 beavers
Tuesday 630 - 730 Tae Kwon Do (he loves it)
Wednesday - free
Thursday 5.45 - 6.16 swimming lesson
Friday - free but every other weekend travels 150 miles to his fathers for weekend.

All other times are free, I am guided by what my DS wants to do. He enjoys creative play by himself as well as playing board games, drawing, reading etc at home.

I think lunchtimes at school should be there own so they can develop relationships and get involved in some creative play.

@ SlyandGobbo.

Athene, what exactly is your school doing that you think puts girls off maths or is otherwise inadequate for your DD? Apologies if I missed the full explanation, I tried to read your messages closely for it.

I totally agree with you, Builde. Regardless of statistical trends, whether they are genetic or culturally constructed, they say nothing about the talents of any particular boy or girl. Once schools start to think along those lines, they're far less likely to respond to the specific needs of a particular child, whether that be a girl who can't sit still and write a sentence without wriggling but is great at woodwork, lego modelling and doing arithmetic in her head (hmm, do I know anyone like that . . .) or a boy who struggles with spatial awareness and loves to sit down & write poetry.

Oops, sorry, I see it now. Athene said that some of the teachers have said that boys are good at spatial awareness and girls are less likely to be.

So... how have those generalisations translated into your DD not being extended in maths as much as she should?