can state primary education plus tutoring = equivalent of private?

[wheelsonthebus]

we planned to privately educate dc, but dh lost his job and now dc is going to a state primary - downgraded from good to satisfactory by ofsted . if we have dc tutored from yr 1 say, can we get up to standard of a private school(with a view to moving dc if our finances improve - possibly at 7, but definitely at 11). Can an hour a week really achieve anything? Anyone done this from early on? Interested in any views. I now work f/t so doing lots of stuff with dc after school myself is not really an option (except at weekends). I'd be interested to know when tutoring shd really start. My friend said her primary school gets great league table results but that's because most parents pay tutors. Also; what do most people get tutors for - maths or English or both?

Vin blanc- in comparison;
Class sizes are about 20- 24 children per teacher + classroom assistant

Football coaching supplied by two premiership football team, acadamy coaches

Music teachers from outside agencies plus many workshops from RLPO, who have helped children compose music and asked children to perform with them on stage for public concerts.

Outside agency teachers hardly develop personal relationships with the pupils, which is very important. That is why small class sizes are so successful (not from classroom management as much as the teachers knowing their pupils).

Still, if you are content, then that's all to the good.

Who really cares about professional tennis tuition for 7 and 8 year olds? (Also, earlier in the thread, we mentioned the success of government strategies, which are providing professional help in schools.) Links are also encouraged with specialist secondary schools as well - for instance, our Y6s visited a language school for extra French; our Y5s went for a dance day at a school with PE specialism.

BTW my perfect class size is 24. I think group and shared work is extremely important - I can't see that 16 children would give you the breadth of ideas. (And yes, the less able children DO have ideas, despite what you think!)

'Private school is an 'experience' - anything else is just 'school' (maybe ) '

What??!!

Did I say something derogatory about less able students? I don't think so. I think that all pupils deserve a good deal in education.

Not you necessarily vinblanc - poor wording!

As a matter of interest are all you people who send your children to private schools privately educated yourselves? (Likewise state?)

ok, ok, anyway, with all this discussion. My dc are at state prim, planning private sec. Don't like the idea of tutoring (neither would ds...). How am I supposed to identify gaps that might make them fail entry exams?? (am foreigner and still don't quite get English educ).

thirdname,

the best thing you can do for your child to pass selective school entrance examinations is to do a few Bond Assessment papers - verbal and non-verbal reasoning. You can buy '11+' packs in WH Smith. You can't revise for the tests, but some practice is beneficial. Beyond that, any entrance examination is similar to SATs tests that they would do in a state primary.

The senior school should inform you of the nature of the tests, and then you can prepare accordingly. Most senior school tests will only assume as much knowledge as the National Curriculum Key Stage 2, and then will assess intelligence via the NFER tests.

thanks. Just fewq more questions. I did buy some nvr and vr books for younger ages dc only 9 y, but how many questions do they need to have right to "stand a chance"?
Alaso, are sats kay stage 2 sat during y 6? Because we were planning transfer after y5 (specific reasons for this).
sorry typig lefthanded

OMG we've been led to believe that children are working 2 years ahead of their state peers in a private school! Therefore, shouldn't senior schools assume the children have 'knowledge' to KS3??

Does the school have a competitive entry at Year 5?

You can get age appropriate VR/NVR papers - should be able to get them for 9 year olds. I think they would then be assessed on English and Maths, which means writing a story and doing an interpretation, then to do a maths paper. They are not likely to be assessed in Science as this tends to be assessing the feeder school's science facilities and teaching, rather than the pupil.

The best thing to do is to talk to the prep school and find out what they will be assessed on. The school will be aware of the teaching in local primary schools and take that into account. They will put more weight onto the VR/NVR tests, so that is why it is useful to practise a few papers (not more than two or three, though). They may also assess on interview and on drama/PE performance. You really need to ask if they haven't already told you.

By vinblanc on Sat 15-Aug-09 16:25:47
You may not value the price tag, but still have to admit that a class of 16 is better than 30.

No I think a class of 16 or a class of 30 aren't the optimum size to be most effective which lies somewhere between the two.

That professional tennis tuition is better than the Year 3 teacher drawing the short straw.

Do you mean the County Cricket Coach who works with players from the national squad who also comes into the state school to coach the pupils or the rugby coach who works with a top class team containing players from many national squads or the rowing coach who also works with the university team ?

That specialist teaching from the attached senior school specialist is better that the Year 2 teacher's grade 3 piano.

or do you mean the music teacher who is also employed by a concert company ?

I'm afraid your ideas about the extras are very outdated

Tricker, I don't think that primary school children's brains are wired any differently from prep school children. Therefore, I think the concepts that they study are equivalent in terms of concrete and abstract. It is not reasonable for prep school children to be working two years ahead, unless you mean that primary children are working two years behind.

The traditional transfer points - 7 and 11 (girls)/13 (boys)- are a part of public school culture and amazingly confirmed by research into children's learning. It is alll to do with brain development.

Mrz, I am impressed that your primary school has national coaches from at least three different sports coming into school on a daily basis, developing important relationships with pupils and identifying and nourishing future talent.

You are truly blessed and there is no debate.

Thirdname, if you're planning on sending your DCs to private secondary schools, make sure you find out when their open days are. Some will give a talk to the parents explaining the exams and levels required, some will freely hand out a past paper. If not, ask them!

Some will admit based not only on test results but also interview the child and want a report from the primary school (this sounds scary but actually isn't - it is something of a safeguard against bad exam due to being poorly or nervous)

The standards vary hugely - one we talked to said basically they took any child that they thought would benefit from being at their school, while another (known to be academic and selective) said that typically they'd be looking for children who could achieve level 5 SATs at the end of Yr 5.

The point is vinblanc it isn't just my primary school. This is a national programme and schools right across England have the same opportunities and it is free....

yeah, yeah, yeah

YEAH

Sorry, when did this thread mutate into a rendition of a Beatles' song?

I actually get quite cross about how blinkered some people can be.

At my DCs' primary school, they don't even do netball or swimming, both of which I believe are compulsory National Curriculum sports.

But they do have the local cricket club come in for one session of Kwik Cricket per year. It is a very good cricket club and I am glad to receive the leaflets about joining, etc., but it really does not come close to the provision of the local prep school. There. they will have at least two hours per day of cricket in the summer term, and net sessions after school throughout the year. They will spend 4 hours on Wednesday afternoons in matches. There is no way the primary schools can compete (they are too busy with 'golden time').

I was looking at the cricket club's website the other day and their team rosters. The vast majority of players were from independent schools (we are in a small town and these things are common knowledge). It is a joke to suggest that a council estate primary is receiving the same quality of sports tuition and opportunity.

These contacts with the community is really down to individual teachers making them happen. There is no magic wand that says that all primary schools are going to receive the same benefits, or all private schools for that matter.

Gosh the cricket/rugby/rowing/knitting national coaches will be busy then won't they

well spotted, dolly

"Quattrocento it is not always the case that independent school pupils are universally bright"

Of course. There is an incredibly wide range of independent schools. Schools for the sporty, the religious, the academic hothouses, the musical, the nice-but-dim, boarding, dayschools, single sex, co-ed ... I could even find you a couple of boarding schools where you can take your horse(s).

Vinblanc

Andy Murray- the UK top tennis player went to Dunblane Primary school. I beleive this is a state school.

Anybody who wants their child to be a sucessful sports person would surely be putting a lot of extra hours in, on top of what they are getting at primary school.

Primary school sports is first about fun and second about spotting potential, to which the child would be directed to outside agencies or have the chance to reprsent their city/county.

Just quoting fixinsocks from earlier post:

'..... both these private schools claim that their children are approx 2 years ahead of where an average state school child would be.'