Am I mad to be considering this?

[nappyaddict]

Sending DS to a school just over 5 miles away (about 10/15 minutes drive but he would have to get a coach unless I manage to learn to drive within the next 12 or so months) purely because they have much smaller class sizes and all the local schools are very oversubscribed so always have the full 30 in a class.

Not all LAS fund for TAs in some areas existing TAs are being phased out.

mrz - where are they being phased out and why? - are they having smaller class sizes or expecting teachers to have 30 children in their class and no TA?

I think you are mad to be basing this on class size alone. Socially he will be better off at the local school. Whether or not there are children his age in the same road is irrelevant, they will still be more local that those at the school 5 miles away.

My school only employs 1 TA. The school in the next village has no TAs. Jobs lost due to school budgets. I know lots of teacher's who have classes of 30 and share a TA with at least another class or sometimes 2 other classes.

I've had a reception class of 36 with a shared TA in the past.

If you read the teacher's forums you would find it quite common in many schools.

CAT64 - Birmingham schools are very well funded. They get inner city funding.

Worcestershire which is next door gets at least £300 per pupil, per year, less than Birmingham. Even though Worcester is a city, it doesn't get any inner city funding. It's madness, and completely unfair. Schools all over the country have the same wage bills, the same utility bills etc and yet, each county pays schools a different amount per pupil.

TC It's likely that he might, yes.

The school could have an inatke of 40; I know a school with an intake of 45 for example.

But I would be surprised to then see 2 x 20 pupils in a class. The school I mention has one class of 30 and one mixed class of 15 from one year and 15 from the one above (or below), as mrz says.

Really schools have to do this to balance the books.

Some village schools are very small eg I know one of 42 pupils; obv they have about 21 in a class but 2 classes in the school (ie one KS1 and one KS2, which presents other problems IMO). But I gather NA you are not talking about this kind of small school?

AFAIK the school has an intake of 60 and there are about 150 pupils in the school.

To be totally honest with you NA if it has an intake of 60 there is no guarantee that yr child's year will not have 60 in it.

If all the year groups are 40 in a 60 intake, there is a serious issue of surplus places.

If it's a primary with 150 pupils then there are fewer than 25 pupils a year. Out of a possible intake of 60? I would be very loath to send my DC to a school with more than 50% surplus places as it would be in danger of closing or merging (in my LA anyways)

Or is it an infant school? With 2 classes a year of 25 each?

When they merge schools aren't they normally close together though? There aren't any other schools close to that one.

Yes it's an infant school and I was told they tend to have classes of roughly 20.

Then they may well have resource issues, and if the numbers drop further will probably start running mixed year classes. Which can work really well. Or not. I would ask about TA support at all the schools. Good TAs can make a huge difference. My major concern would be that you will always be an outsider, especially if you don't pass your test or can't afford a car when you do. That might not be an issue for your ds but it might be a big deal - it wouldn't have bothered ds because he never felt the need for playdates after school, but for dd it would be very upsetting, as she is a very social little girl and not being invited to her friends or to parties would upset her a great deal.

What would be the deal for the junior school?

Also re the school bus have you checked it would even come and pick up your son - here it is very set who can and can't get the bus. If you are not on the route then you just wouldn't get the bus - not a matter of paying.

That's a lot of surplus places. You could easily end up with combined classes to make numbers up to 30-35 in that situation. Sounds like a massive risk if class size is your main priority.

I had thought about mixed year group classes but tbh they've had the same size classes for at least 20 years, most probably longer, so would have thought if that was something they wanted to do they would have done it sooner?

The school coach picks up right outside our road so that's ok. I've already got a car I just can't legally drive it yet

It would just take a change in headteacher or a change in governors and you might be there. The key thing is room size and room layout. Are they restricted to 20 because of limited space?

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure they can take up to 60 which would mean they have the room for 30 in a class? I know the head has changed in 20 years but only once or twice.

If you can't drive he'll never be able to go to tea or have anyone over for tea - that's an important part of school life as they get older. I live 5 miles away from our ds's school and it is a royal pain in the neck. I sometimes do the journey to and from town 4 or 5 times a day. Apart from anything else, my carbon footprint doesn't bear thinking about!

If you think your DC may need any sort of SEN support I would look at the SEN provision offered by each school irrespective of class sizes.

My DS is in a class of 29 in an oversubscribed two form entry school. The class has a teacher, TA and then there is another TA who looks after one child with SEN. The group of children needing extra help are also taken out for extra literacy etc with another TA so the staffing levels seem better than one might expect.

However surely it is not just about the staff/child ratio but the quality of the provision. If possible speak to parents already at the schools you are looking at to find out if the brighest children are stretched and whether those who need extra help eg. those with dyslexia are given the right support.

I have experienced driving one of my DCs to a school a few miles away and am moving them to a local school. The driving is time consuming and costly....at least £150 in petrol a month plus wear and tear on the car, a lot of stress sitting in traffic queues, negotiating pot-holes and 4x4 drivers on country lanes etc! Not to mention the environmental impact. If you use the school coach it would still need to be paid for and you would not have daily contact with your childs teacher which is particularly important in the early years.
Your child may end up making friends with people who live 5 miles the other side of the school meaning driving miles for parties etc.

The cost of petrol is only going to go up!

When I was at primary school I went to a rural primary a few miles away. However free coach travel was provided and in those days there was a lot less interaction between parents and the school (my parents only turned up at school for sports day and parents evenings) and no after school clubs.

Do other people in your area use the school 5 miles away? If not, surely the local schools must be good enough.

A few do but not lots. Perhaps about 30 over the infant, junior and secondary school.

Honestly, it's a nightmare. The people back to tea would be a deal breaker for me, even without considering anything else. I really wish we didn't do it!

Oh OK if it?s an infant school then that?s not a huge number of surplus places.
But unless there is a nursery included in those figures, 150 pupils across 3 years in 6 classes = 25 pupils in a class, not 20. FWIW.

And who is to say they won?t get 60 one year?
My DS2 is as it happens in a very small year at our school - his class is now 26 but in reception it was 22 at first. But we are keen to take any extra to get the numbers up. And DD at the same school in yr 2 was in a class of 30. When she went up to juniors that increased to 33.

I do think you need to consider other factors as well ? and the distance would be a big one for me.

I agree with HappyWomble about the SEN stuff. Don't assume that the school with smaller classes will be better for SEN support. I would speak to both the small class school and your local schools, and explain what difficulties your DS currently has, and ask what sort of support they would give a child in this situation. I would both visit the schools and phone up and ask to speak to head or senco about the SEN stuff. LEAs are meant to have people that help parents sort out schooling for kids with SEN as part of their early years/inclusion service, it will probably be worth you speaking to your council's ParentPartnership service as the starting point.

Will look round all the schools in September and ask about SEN support, how many TAs there are, how often they are there etc and make my decision based on that i think. I also want to see if they would support him going part time to begin with. Perhaps not every day, but I think he will be very tired doing 5 full days with homework on top. I know they don't get much but tbh anything extra out of school time is unnecessary imo. 14 months is a long time and perhaps he will have dropped his nap by then and he might cope but in case he hasn't I would like to find out if they would be happy with that. I know they can't legally stop him from going part time as he will only be 4 when he starts but I feel it is important to have a good relationship with the school so would be happier if he could attend one which was happy with that arrangement.

There shouldn't be any homework in Reception.

And there shouldn't be a problem with hi going paet time. I think the trick is to very politely and sweetly say what you intend to do in terms of part time and so on. I used to keep mine at home on the occasional Friday if they got too tired - worked well.

Please don't go for the 5 miles away one though!