Am I mad to be considering this?

[nappyaddict]

Sending DS to a school just over 5 miles away (about 10/15 minutes drive but he would have to get a coach unless I manage to learn to drive within the next 12 or so months) purely because they have much smaller class sizes and all the local schools are very oversubscribed so always have the full 30 in a class.

Do you know about the number of TAs in each class?

Is 20 the max or is it because it is undersubscribed?

I'm going with the majority. Class sizes alone wouldn't decide it for me. Although I might be slightly at a class of 30 4/5 year olds and only one adult.

nappyaddict I agree with seeker (as ever!) I think you have already made up your mind.

It certainly wouldn't be my choice - there were children in our road who got in a car and drove off every day to some distant school - my DC (and I) barely knew their names - unlike the one swho go to the local school with us, who are handy impromtu playdates/help in emergency apart from anything else!

Is there no TA or other help in the other local schools with 30 in a class? Why does this village school only have 20? Is that always the case? That's unusually small for a state primary IME and suggests it may well have fundign issues as it's harder for a school to fund a teacher for 20 kids than 30 (obviously).

it wont be one teacher and 30 kids though

Why not bigchris?

I have done something similar for the same reason, and I think it is a good decision, BUT you really need to pass your test! You need to know that you can get there straightaway as and when required, and be able to be there for all appointments, meetings etc etc of which there are many more than I realsied.

As for the socialising bit, it has not been an issue at all. All the kids interact with the kids they get on with, and couldn't care less who lives where BUT again, that is because I am happy to drive as and when to get dt's where they need to be.

Remember that not all the kids there will be locals, there will be others doing the same as you. And let's face it, most people drive and 5 miles is hardly a big distance really.

As for resourcing, presumably you will have had a good look around so you can judge how well resourced the school is.

I think it is mad to send so far away on the basis of a difference of 10 children in a class.

DD's school permanently full. 2 form entry. 60 pupils. She's in year 1 and they always have a TA as well as the teacher, and in any case, do a lot of set work where the parallel classes are mixed to enable smaller group work.

Is it a 1 form entry? So there'd only be 20 pupils per year? That would also concern me to some extent - is actually pretty good to have a large pool of potential friends.

But the main main reason would be that you are relying on being mobile, on passing your test, having car, paying for transport when you could be close to the school. Also there are always times when you have to attend school with problemmatic timing. i.e. on sports' day parents can attend between 9.30am and 1pm (includes massive picnic on field). School pick up not til 3.30pm. Would you really want to then be organising multiple cabs? Then that same evening is parents' evening. Not forgetting the day before being open day. And the there's the Friday success assembly. And so on and so on and so on......

teaching assistants? our sch as one in every class, is that unusual?

It would be nice to think that is the norm but the legal requirement for reception is 1 adult to 30 children. So if funding is tight there will be no TAs.

ah ours is oversubscribed with 35 in some classes i think

Where do you live cat64? Can I come? In Y2 we only get a TA 2/5 days per week!!!

My DS2's class (yr 1) has no TA.

School short of funds and has had to do without where less needed (DS2's yr is small and v well behaved )

However I do agree an FS2 class with no TA support would be very unusual I would hope.

IMO they should be compulsory for all KS1 (and Govt should provide funding) grrrr

I think you should go for it.My own experience has been that class size is very important at that age.

Nappy - I think one of the previous posters was right and you need to find out why there are only 20 children in the class. If their possible intake number is 30, and it is undersubscribed then you need to consider why.

If their intake number is 20, then they will definitely struggle for funds and may not have TAs in classes. The maths is simple for me - 1 teacher and 1 TA for 30 children = 1:15 ratio. 1 teacher to 20 children = 1:20 ratio.

Classes break even when there are about 28 children in the class. If the intake number is 30, and there are only 20 in the class, then the school will be missing out on something like £35K per year, per class. If the intake number is 20, and there are 20 in the class, the school will not break even, and budget cuts will have to be made somewhere else.

Dd is in a school like this - the PTA raise about £25K per year which helps to provide basics like books etc. so that school funds can go on teachers.

Defintitely think this is a decision you need to look more into. I went to a village school with small class sizes and it was certainly not a school I would have wanted my children to go to. If this further away school has high standards why aren't others going there and the class sizes rising? You definitely need to establish what the school limit is.
I would definitely choose a class of 30 in a reliable school (probably with the ability to afford a TA) to a class of 20 who would be unlikely to get a TA. In my son's Reception class the TA is fantastic and I have as much faith in her as a practioner as the teacher.

The journey would also be a consideration for me. Reception is very tiring and that sounds like a lot of time in the car (where my son would have been falling asleep on the way home). And when friendships start to develop and playdates happen - what then? No meeting in the local park, popping round to each other's houses in Y5, easy playdates after school. You'll be driving home in the dark. And what about secondary school feeders?

I just think you need to know more about staffing before you make a decision.

Apologies for the ludicrous amounts of 'definitely' in that post.
I would also agree with pp that pool of friendships is also a consideration. If other kids are all local and may know each other's families from the village it could make it more tricky. I would ask whether anyone else travels from a distance.

littlefish does it makes a difference if there are 2 classes per year group or not?

Yes it makes a difference if there are 2 classes per year group because we suddenly move from a small village school to quite a large school. Very unusual for a school to have 2 classes of 20 children in a year group IME

Mrz is right. It still depends on the number of children in each class. With two classes of 20, schools would be very unlikely to be able to afford to have TAs as well. It is still either a school with an intake number of 60, but with only 40 pupils, and you need to find out why. Alternatively, it is a school with an intake number of 40 which means they will lose funding of about 70K per year.

As Tambajam said - if it is a good school, why are numbers not rising?

A few of the local schools only have an intake of 30 or 45, not 60. Does that mean they will also lose a large amount of funding? If that's the case why don't all schools just take 60?

The optimum intake number is 30 because that is the infant class size limit so multiples of that are also good in terms of money
1 teacher to 30 children is cost effective
2 teachers to 60 children is cost effective

schools with intakes of 45 often have mixed age classes so would organise

1 teacher 30 reception children
1 teacher 15 r/15 Y1 childreb
1 teacher 30 Y1 children
etc

The school my children attended had an intake limit of 10 and had 3 mixed age classes of 30 employing 3 teachers = cost effective

They might not have the room nappy. A PAN (pupil admission number) is worked out on a number of factors including floor space etc.

It usually means that schools have to decided whether to keep single age classes (and therefore miss out on funding), or have mixed age classes, and therefore, maximise their funding.

A class of 30 will get full funding.

Be aware that in some village schools the mum's who live in the village are more likely to know each other and could be (perhaps unintentially) quite cliquey.

Happened to SIL and her dd, where all the kids from outside the village were not included in birthday parties, play dates etc.

SIL is very sociably, friendly and helpful, and even got involved as a fundraiser for the school, but it didnt help and she ended up moving her dd to local school.

nappy - you talk about your DS getting the support needs earlier in the thread? hope I am not being insensitive, but did you say this because you think he is likely to have any special educational needs?