Girls not allowed to wear trousers to school? I thought we were in the 21st century?

[TheYearOfTheCatMPADist]

My DD is due to start primary school in September. I have been reading through the school's info pack, and I am really surprised (and hacked off) that the school specifies for winter school uniform, girls must wear a skirt & tights, and not trousers.

Is this normal? It seems so unnecessary. I can't really put into words how I feel, as it is pretty late, but it seems to be reinforcing gender stereotypes.

I am considering raising the issue with the head teacher, but would appreciate any views.

Side saddle bike and demonstrated by a man . Should be obligatory mode of transport for all skirt-touting schools.

That's fab Olihan , glad someone is on my wavelength.

That's a shame, Panda, I still haven't found it and need to pay a cheque in.

I went to SHS but travelled in from outside S, like lots of other people.

V. good point on this thread about skirts inhibiting physical activity, btw. Side-saddle bikes, fgs!

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I very rarely wear anything other than skirts or dresses and cycle every day. I'm with Bloss!

i have to admit that i really dislike those school trousers on young girls
its the way they're cut into their backsides that i object to
its fine on teenagers but i'm all for little girls in summer dresses or pinafores as indeed my dd wears for school
and i also choose to dress my boys in shorts for as long as the weather permits
i always feel sorry for those poor little lads on baking hot days who are still wearing trousers

Hello Edam. This is turning into a bit of a school reunion. Eek!

um, I'm with Lobster on this,

Hypocritical I know as I hardly ever wear skirts myself but hate those horrible polyester trousers on girls

I'd never let uniform be the ultimate deciding factor on my choice of school though.

I used to feel quite proud (aged 8 or so) to wear uniform at school (particularly the summer dress and blazer) - I remember feeling self-confident and sort of "safe" in it ... a feeling of belonging and being part of a big group or family ....

[Digression alert:
Having said all that, the worst example I have seen of trying to make a male uniform fit "all" is when I was watching TV coverage of the Chelsea flower show recently and they introduced the two (only recently admitted) new women Chelsea pensioners .....that big red coat did nothing for them ...in fact it looked ludicrous. Surely they could have designed something better than that?]

Girls' school trousers are cut very badly and look scruffy, imo.

Too many options (skirt/trousers/dress/shorts) dilutes the uniformity of the uniform - surely one argument in favour of school uniform at all is that the children from the most affluent families will be dressed the same as those from the least affluent families. If the school wants a culture of the children being smartly dressed then a prescriptive policy, with limited choice, is the obvious step to take.

A state primary school can't enforce a school uniform policy but a head who wants to be strict about these things will manage it somehow. A head who doesn't will hide behind the legal restrictions on primary school uniform policy.

A sensible uniform policy doesn't price children out of the school. So long as the items are generic (eg navy knee-length skirt, rather than 100% wool navy box pleat knee length skirt item no. blah from Fancy School Outfitters Ltd).

I'm a governor at a state primary school and we recently had this debate about uniform. There is another state primary down the road (so v similar demographic) where the head clearly has different view about uniform to our head. The children all look very smart, all wear the school's own waterproof jacket, all wear dark shoes etc. Our children don't look quite so smart, which bothers some people quite a bit and others not at all. We have a uniform list but there isn't such a strong culture of encouraging children and their parents to take it seriously. So if someone forgets their tie it isn't commented on. Or if they are wearing trainers nothing is said. The school gives merits to children for all sorts of things, but there is no culture of giving a merit for being smartly dressed.

Ooh, I used to LOVE wearing my summer dress at school! Knowing you were back to school in the normal uniform come September was always depressing

Oh Bloss and Talbot you are grown up women who have been cycling for years and are presumably reasonably confident about your dress and appearance. You are not 14, a bit wobbly and self-conscious and worried about being laughed at by the boys and other girls and getting your clothes all messed up on your bike. Well, I presume you?re not anyway.

The fact is, skirts inhibit free movement and given that the widely accepted figures are that on average boys cycle 138 miles per year while girls cycle 24 miles per year, I think it?s probably unreasonable to imagine that dress has no part whatsoever to play in this huge gulf. (That figure is quoted by Sustrans btw and I believe it was originally culled from a report by the National Children?s bureau. I find myself feeling quite horrified by that gulf, and I?m not a particularly fanatical cyclist.)

My daughter who is 7 pretty much only wears dresses and cycles every day too. I can honestly say it has never occurred to me not to wear a skirt while cycling - after all isn't that precisely why girls' bikes are designed as they are? i.e. to accomodate a skirt

My DD also cycles with skirts, but she's 7 and doesn't care if a gust of wind blows her skirt up and people see her knickers. I expect her attitude will be different in 5 years time though.

I just don't believe that the lack of cycling by girls compared to boys, has nothing whatsoever to do with the clothes they wear. I mean, I know there are other factors, but I just can't believe that their tendency to wear more restrictive clothing than boys, plays no part in that cycling gulf.

Sorry, I seem to have turned this into a cycling and girls thread, I don't mean to. The point about cycling is just part of a wider one - that by insisting on skirts, as opposed to making it a choice, we are restricting girls' movements in a way that we don't restrict the movements of boys. I just think that's dreadful and wrong.

Those figures weren't talking about primary aged children btw, they were about secondary. I presume (and oh god hope ) that that gulf doesn't exist at primary level.

Legally, schools cannot enforce a rigid school uniform policy. Also, what would they do if they had a girl who, for religious or cultural reasons, wanted to wear something akin to a trouser as part of her uniform? You can always discuss your concerns with the head, (although I can't imagine any head enforcing rule like this in the 21st century!), with a parent governor, (who must have voted on the school uniform policy), or with the local authority.
If something as blatant as uniform is so out-dated at this school, I would also be having a good look at the reading books they send home, at the ICT equipment and opportunities for use of computers throughout all areas in school, at the community cohesion and opportunities for parents/carers to be involved in, for eg, parent/carer councils and at the whole way you are welcomed into school or kept at arms length.
Does this school foster a working partnership with parents/carers and pupils, or is it a case of, "We know best, do as we say?"
A school usually welcomes new children into the school and bends over backwards to make each child's transition into school a smooth one. Thou shalt not wear trousers girls, in the 21st century, would worry me - and I would be looking at other options.

Many girls I know of these days, well the older ones, wear short leggins under their dresses, so flashing pants not an issue. Besides having seen how short some of the teenagers make their skirts I think, TBH, that flashing of pants isn't a major concern or priority for them!

I cycle in skirts and dresses - did for a week at Centre Parks with no prblems. DD cycles in dresses and skirts too. Not been an issue.

The figures we have show that there is a major issue in girls cycling v boys cycling. Common sense dictates that that issue of the difference in levels of physical movement, are unlikely to be confined to just cycling.

Why should girls have to have an extra piece of clothing boys don't have?

(The leggings, I'm referring to)

I would have thought they wear leggings because they're very fashionable and they like them.

What do the figures on participation on other sports look like for teens? Surely boys participate far more in sports overall relative to girls?

Cycling isn't only a sport talbot, it's a method of travelling to school.

And yes you are right, the overall participation of boys (and men) is higher than that of girls (and women) in sport.

And why is that? We could have a whole other thread on that discussion, but of course concern with clothing and appearance has something to do with it. (Surveys are always being carried out among teenagers and across the board, concern about appearance always comes out high as a barrier to participation in sport and physical activity for girls. And how is it helping to address that, by insisting they wear clothing that even slightly discourages physical activity and is a symbol of girls being directed towards less dynamic, less active behaviour than boys?)

Well of course appearance has everything to do with lower participation by girls (swimming is an obvious example). Still not convinced that the school uniform is that key to the issue. Obviously many schools do allow girls to wear trousers and I'd be curious to know whether levels of say cycling amongst girls are higher there than schools which don't allow trousers.

I don't think it's necessarily key, I just think it's one part of the mix. And all parts of the mix ought to be taken out.

Yes I wonder if there is any data about that. I bet there isn't.

Wow, I'm just back from a work trip to all these posts! I think this is the longest thread I have ever started in my MN career! I have only read 1/2 so far, but had to post.

I think what really irks me is the school's insistence that there is no choice in the matter, and yes, to be forced to wear a different item of clothing because you are a girl is IMO sexist.

I think to say it is feminism gone mad is frankly at best, laughable. To me, forcing girls to wear skirts is a visible symbol of girls having to be 'pretty' and showing off their legs, and boys being practical and warm.

Personally, I always wear trousers. Not in an androgenous trying to be a man way, just in a practical 'I don't want my male colleagues checking out my puffy lower calves and commenting' sort of way.

My DD definitely prefers wearing trousers, although not exclusively.

The school is a state primary. The thing is, I would really like to challenge and change the policy, not just insist on my DD wearing trousers. I think that would single her out as being different, and at this age (4) going to 'big' school is such an important step for children that. The last thing they want to do is stand out as being different.

I wonder how I go about asking for the policy to be changed. Would it be via the Board of Governors?

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