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Can anyone give me an idea of how much a teacher earns?

58 replies

foxinsocks · 17/06/2009 08:15

a class teacher, with no additional management responsibilities

am interviewing nannies at the moment and have had quite a few applications from teachers (who started out as nannies but then qualified as teachers but who now want to go back to something else)

just wanted an idea of what sort of salary teachers are on now

OP posts:
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melissa75 · 18/06/2009 12:00

QTS...not QQTS!!

melissa75 · 18/06/2009 12:01

don't know why that posted twice...my computer is really acting up at the moment!

frAKKINPannikin · 18/06/2009 13:49

Er, that was my point about NQTs - if they're on a reduced timetable and being treated as such then there's no reason why they shouldn't be paid as an NQT. If they're not being treated as an NQT (with the support and the reduced timetabling and the no-additional-repsonsibilities) then they're not really an NQT, are they? And therefore they shouldn't really be paid as one and I, personally, would be heading off to an employmeny tribunal. It's illegal to discriminate in terms of pay between people with the same or equivalent qualifications doing the same job. Sadly some people get away with it because workers don't research their rights. I think it's the responsibility of anyone working in a country different to where they've previously worked to be aware of what they're entitled to in terms of support from management level, validation of qualifications, employment rights in terms of pay....

My apologies re: Canadanian system - my personal research is clearly out of date. I remember being very put off by lack of transferrability between states. Ditto America actually. However it appears from what you posted that Canada doesn't recognise GTP, RTP or 3 year BEds or BAs with QTS from polytechnics or teacher training colleges so some British teachers are going to be excluded from transferring there. Likewise secondary teachers are going to find it hard to transfer because it's unusual to be a double subject specialist.

Britain being extremely nice - it is extremely nice because it doesn't require certain teachers to completely retrain (EU/EEA). France does regardless of whether you're EU or not, as do a lot of other EU countries. Non EEA trained teachers can apply for validation by the GTC through NARIC. Therefore, comparatively, Britain is nice...especially when you consider that education is one of the most individual things about any country and always will be, regardless of how homogenised economic or other policies become.

OTTs DON'T have QTS according to UK law so you can't argue they do. British teachers don't have their QTS recognised in other countries automatically because they are not qualified teachers in the country that they are moving to and that's all that matters in the end. Anyone who moves internationally needs to be aware of the equivalency of their qualifications and sadly, whilst business is very portable, education is very specific unless you end up teaching in international schools which are, in most places, very competitive to get into.

I'm sorry it sounds like you had a raw deal when you first started teaching here and I hope it's better for you now.

frAKKINPannikin · 18/06/2009 13:51

I have to say I really do appreciate where you're coming from. I have the same problem and will keep facing it as long as DP is Navy.

melissa75 · 18/06/2009 16:26

I completely agree with you where you say that it is a workers responsibility to know what the laws (both employment and otherwise) and thus their personal rights are of the country they are in.

Unfortunately however, with all the knowledge in the world of your personal rights, people are often too scared to go against the powers at be so to speak, as they do not want to be chastised by their colleagues (I have seen this happened too many times) or have their lives be made a living hell by SM. Yes, this is not right, and yes, depending on the circumstances and extent, may be against the law, but unfortunately it still happeneds each and every day in schools in the UK, and I have been amazed by how many people I have come in contact with in the past four years who either have no idea (or refuse to acknowledge and turn a 'blind eye') that it is even happening.

An OTT who has just acquired British QTS most definately should not be paid as an NQT, especially since they are not one...but unfortunately the fact of the matter is that it does happened, and even when questioning this with unions etc.. they said that there is nothing one can do about it because an OTT who has just acquired British QTS is very often seen as an NQT for payscale purposes, and that was my point...is that they are being paid as NQT's even though they are not. They are doing a full timetable with subject responsibility and are not on a reduced timetable as an NQT is.

"OTTs DON'T have QTS according to UK law so you can't argue they do"
OTT's do have QTS from their respective countries...it is just not recognised by Britain which is the biggest point. An OTT is not unqualified, and thats what my argument is. By calling the payscale the "Unqualified teacher payscale", it sends the wrong message to people who do not have the proper or correct information.

When I came to teach in England, I was a Canadian teacher with Canadian QTS which Britain does not recognise, but it does not mean I am not a qualified teacher.
So I think in the end, it comes down to the choice of words, whether it is an OTT coming to teach in England, or vice versa...referring to an OTT as "unqualified" goes not only against the education level they have worked hard to achieve, but also against their home countries whole education system.

The sad part is that, this is not just specific to teachers, or to Britain. It happeneds all over the world to all different occupations. Speaking from the North American perspective..there are SO many individuals who are very highly educated with PHD's from their home countries, that come to North America to seek a better life for themselves/their families and they end up in minimum wage jobs because their qualifications are not recognised.

Just out of interest...what did you mean by "validation" where you wrote "Non EEA trained teachers can apply for validation by the GTC through NARIC"? I have had too many bad interactions with NARIC, that I cannot say anything positive about them, as they are so entirely disorganised etc...but I just was not sure what you meant by that sentence?

I think that people such as yourself frakkin truly understand the frustration of constantly dealing with the different countries rules/regulations/laws (as you mentioned your personal circumstance above)...are you a teacher as well?....I have a friend from the States who is in Germany right now with her husband who is stationed there at the moment from the Army, and she too has had to jump through SO many hoops to get her qualifications recognised....and it is just so frustrating, and without letting people know that the concept exists, it will never have a chance to change.

melissa75 · 18/06/2009 16:31

sorry...happens!

frAKKINPannikin · 18/06/2009 22:45

Yes you were a qualified teacher but you don't have QTS as far as Britain is concerned - it's a British status, like OFSTED registration or registration with the GMC. You can be qualified in any profession but if you don't have the registration with the relevant body you don't have the status. Overseas trained doctors and nurses face the same thing until they can be registered with their relevant professional body and it's just responsible to ensure that registration is there before allowing them to do their job so why should it be any different for teachers? I think we're arguing the same point but you focus on the Q whereas I focus on the S.

It's irresponsible in my view is that people can teach without having gained QTS - if they can teach in state schools as 'unqualified teachers' then why can't they just take the QTS tests and be done with it? But at the same time I know that educational systems are so different and it's next to impossible to maintain a list of courses which would be acceptable so you need to prove it on a case by case basis and that just takes forever to do. Admittedly it's not fair that OTTs can't come in on the same payscale and calling them 'unqualified teachers' is wrong but there isn't (currently) an 'OTT without QTS' payscale where you could progress in the same way and just get a fixed payrise when you gain QTS.

The system everywhere needs changing - I was reading about a European Masters in Education which would be recognised by a number of partner countries, which to me sounded a fantastic plan but I doubt more than 2 countries will be able to agree on anything! And France will never agree so I'm forever screwed.

NARIC via the GTC is what I meant for validation - but I've (thankfully?) never had to deal with them!

Sorry for complete hijack OP!

melissa75 · 19/06/2009 09:27

I agree with you on so many levels...what you said I think, is the same as I wrote...

I think my only argument in what you have written is when you just refer to it as "QTS"...if you said "British QTS" then I would entirely agree...but just saying QTS makes it sound like I am unqualified, which I most definately am not!

I think the main concept behind gaining QTS for an OTT taking so long, is to give them a chance to work and support themselves whilst creating their portfolio. I only wish it was so easy to gain QTS as to take the tests and be done with it...you have to spend SO much time trying to sort out through NARIC to get your transcripts from your home country...and God help you if your home country does not have English as their primary language because interpreting is a disaster!! Then you have to write the three knowledge tests which I actually completely agree with...and then have to create the portfolio, have the observations etc... I agree that it is important for England to make sure that the person coming in from overseas is competant and understands the British education system...but there are so many that come, work the four years and then if they have not gained QTS are forced to leave...hence my referral to cheap labour...they are good enough for four years to do the same job with the same responsibilities, and get paid a pittance, and then it is out the door with them!

"Admittedly it's not fair that OTTs can't come in on the same payscale and calling them 'unqualified teachers' is wrong"
Here..Here!! Thats my biggest point!!

BTW...hope you continue to be able to avoid NARIC...I have never come across such a disorganised bureaucratic organisation in all my professional career!

You're right, the system desperately needs changing, but I think the only way this will happen is through the education of the general public to alert them as to what is really happening, because unfortunately, if you have not experienced it yourself, or know the intricate details of someone who has, you just don't know about it. This is why I feel it is so important to tell other people about the unjusts that are done.
Sometimes ignorance is bliss as they say, in this case, it certainly is not!

foxinsocks...sorry for taking a different turn on your OP...but it does still come down to the money a teacher makes!

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