Can anyone give me an idea of how much a teacher earns?

[foxinsocks]

a class teacher, with no additional management responsibilities

am interviewing nannies at the moment and have had quite a few applications from teachers (who started out as nannies but then qualified as teachers but who now want to go back to something else)

just wanted an idea of what sort of salary teachers are on now

But can apply for QTS, no? And presumably can then access UPS/TLRs.

yes OTTs can convert to QTS and then follow same route as the rest of us

ah interesting reading

the ones that have applied would be overseas qualified teachers

so how do you get assessed then? (I mean who assesses teacher's performance?)

Don't really see the problem then....

OFSTED, the local authority, HMI, your leadership team and the exam results.

they cannot "convert" to QTS!! That makes it sound like you fill in a form and there you go! It is a long, arduous process, that, for an already trained teacher is ridiculous to have to go through again!

But yes, once an OTT has British QTS...then they can apply/qualify for UPS/TLR's

How long?

Melissa, is it not a case of them meeting the competencies on the job (as NQTs do)?

thanks clemette, wow sounds quite a task!

seems a bit unfair to judge on exam results when you can have such different ability children in every school but I guess that's a small component?

foxinsocks...are you talking about those assessed with QTS already?

well for some it is virtually 'converting' but yes, poor choice of verb I admit. However, the fact remains that OTTs are not excluded from the same payscale and do have the opportunity to gain QTS, whether this is straightforward or not generally depends on the experience and competence of the person concerned and the institution guiding them through the process.

Sadly it is THE largest component. Each child has an externally set target for your subject and you have to try and get them there. For some it is straightforward, for others (eg the bright but with horrible home lives) it can be a challenge!

oh I have no idea melissa

am interviewing tomorrow so will ask all sorts of questions about it

I'm always a bit hesitant when I get nannies who have been teachers as most I have interviewed just want a break and inevitably go back to teaching so I was just wondering what sort of salary they were leaving to come and do this

as it happens, this lady mentioned she wanted to study so I am wondering if the studying is this QTS thing you are talking about

but will ask and find out

I honestly never realised that clemette! That must be quite a challenge!

most OTT's do it in about 8 months, but you have up to a year once registering for the program to complete it.

clemette...no, it is not the same as NQT's...an OTT can apply for QTS with induction or without...with, you would do the QTS process and then have an NQT year following this...without, is just that, without the NQT year. You have to create a very detailed portoflio of evidence of how you have met all the standards in your day to day teaching practice.

I don't think that's unacceptable though. It would take at least that long to learn the education system in a different country, and I wouldn't be offended if I had to create a portfolio to evidence my work abroad. Sound sensible to me.

Sounds

duckyfuzz...are you an OTT?

"the fact remains that OTTs are not excluded from the same payscale "....actually, they are excluded!!

Once they have QTS...many of them start back down at the bottom of the totem pole so to speak...regardless of how many years of experience they have pre getting QTS, so even if they have been teaching for 3 years in England (never mind years of experience in their home country), get QTS in their fourth year, many schools put them as an NQT payscale following their acquisition of British QTS....so they actually are excluded from the the same payscale!

Melissa, do you know how this compares to British teachers teaching elsewhere in the world?
If I wanted to go to America, for example, would I have to complete a qualification process to get paid the same? It doesn't sound that unreasonable to me, but if it is only Britain that asks for it then perhaps it is unfair.

If you wanted to come to France to teach you would have to totally requalify.

You have to take a state "competitive" exam (ie only a certain quota can pass each year depending on the need for teachers - you are then guaranteed a job somewhere in France).

It's not that bad for OTTs now - schools are a lot fairer about recognising experience.

I can see the point about OTTs not being excluded. If you're state then you go onto the state payscale once you get QTS and it's discretionary what they offer you in terms of salary - it's not necessarily a straightforward 'payrise every year'. To be honest I can see why schools put NQTs on the NQT payscale - they're teaching a reduced timetable. They can then jump up after their NQT year. My mother did that - 1 year paid as an NQT and then relevant professional experience put her up to M4.

The point at which they are excluded is when they don't have QTS which is reasonable.

Many countries, including France, make you completely requalify. And for a lot of places it's a very long and competitive process....

Britain is actually extremely nice - EU/EEA teachers aren't counted as OTTs and can just do the QTS tests.

In America, for example, a PGCE isn't recognised. You have to have certain credits in your (4 year) Bachelors degree, a certain GPA, you then have to take the state tests for a teaching license and do your school placements. In France you take the concours (for which most people spend a year preparing), then you do the IUFM with a year in a college and a year pratical. Admittedly you're guaranteed a job but that could be on a tropical island (DOM) or somewhere awful. In Canada you have to do a one or two year course, although I think some provinces let you do pre-service teaching work and a course about the Canadian school system.

Thank you.

I cannot speak to the American system, as I am not familiar with there...however the Canadian one I am very familiar with and
"In Canada you have to do a one or two year course, although I think some provinces let you do pre-service teaching work and a course about the Canadian school system." is actually untrue.

Prior to 1st April this year, each province was its own entity, and like mini countries in reference to its rules and regulations when transferring qualifications. Since April 1st, the entire country has opened up to Canadian qualified teachers, and as I am Canadian trained, I could go and teach anywhere in Canada with my qualifications from my home province.

As opposed to cutting and pasting...here is the website whih explains the transfer of qualifications for a British trained teacher to be able to teach in Ontario, and thus now Canada since 1st April 2009
www.oct.ca/IET/countries/countries_e/england_united_kingdom/england_united_kingdom.aspx?lang=en-CA

so clemette, in answer to your question, no it does not work both ways! Also, some of the Scandinavian countries accept Canadian trained teachers on par, and they are thus paid, and most importantly treated the same as their home trained colleagues....this is not the case for those who come to teach in England from outside the EU!

FrakkinPannikin

"I can see the point about OTTs not being excluded. If you're state then you go onto the state payscale once you get QTS and it's discretionary what they offer you in terms of salary - it's not necessarily a straightforward 'payrise every year'. To be honest I can see why schools put NQTs on the NQT payscale - they're teaching a reduced timetable. They can then jump up after their NQT year. My mother did that - 1 year paid as an NQT and then relevant professional experience put her up to M4."

Just wondering how you can agree that an OTT who has just acquired British QTS and has 4 years British teaching experience (never mine their experience in other countries, or their home country), teaches a full timetable and holds subject responsibility should be paid as an NQT, as the majority do???

I completely agree with NQT's being paid as they are, because they teach a redued timetable and do not hold subject responsibility.

I was a Year two teacher a few years back before acquiring british QTS...and also held the subject responsibility for ICT. A friend of mine who is British trained, and was holding the same post with the same responsibility had a TLR because it was a core subject...and a major undertaking to be responsible for, which required a LOT of extra hours of outside teaching time work. Therefore, I would really be interested in knowing how it is fair, or how Britain is being "extremely nice" in this circumstance?

The bottom line is OTT's are cheap labour...they are brought in, mostly put into very inner city schools where noone else wants the jobs, and as they do not know any better, accept the positions, and are treated and paid as second class citizens. Most are not even given performance management as Heads cannot be bothered as they are not British trained. They cannot apply onto the QTS program until the end of their first year of teaching in England, therefore being paid terribly for their first two years here.

" The point at which they are excluded is when they don't have QTS which is reasonable"
Completely unreasonable...as they do have QQTS...it is just not from Britain, therefore it is not recognised!

QTS...not QQTS!!