No school place available - East Sheen (Richmond Uptghe on Thames) Advice please!!!

[Helliebean1]

Hello - I'm new here but could really do with some advice.

Following from the disappointment of findout that not only did our dd not get one of her 3 chosen schools in East Sheen - she didn't get anything (much crying/shouting/stressing), I was advised by the council to 'remain calm' and wait to see how the waiting lists panned out. So today the lists became available and she is between 9th and 39th at the 6 schools she is on the waiting list for (with the majority being over 20th....) so not looking good. The lady at the council offices agreed that it 'doesn't seem fair' that children who have already been offered a place at a chosen school are ahead of my dd but that is the 'way it is'. She told me to call again in a few weeks after the council have had a while to consider a contingency plan... Sorry, is it me or should they have 'considered a plan' a little sooner??
So my question is, does any one have any experience of how much these lists move (given that we are in a bulge/credit crunch kinda year) and whether I would have any grounds at all for an appeal (no statement of special needs other than the need for a place at a school!!!) if she is eventually offered the only one school within 3 miles of our home that I don't want??
Any advice most welcome and thank you x

Congratulations, bellesgirl, thats fantastic news

dd1 is at Lowther, and we're very happy with it. I would have thought your 6 year old would stand a good chance of a place? Much harder in Reception for next year, but do talk to the Head, she's lovely.

I've no idea re BP availability, but again, do ask them.

Thanks, Elibean - fantastic and just a little daunting!!

We had been told by neighbours to give L a wide berth but, having read previous comments on this thread which spoke highly of the school, we've looked into it and are very impressed with what we've seen and read. When I questioned my neighbours it seems that their views were set some 10 years ago and things have obviously changed much over that time.

I love the fact that the emphasis seems to be on community and strong pastoral care rather than just hot-housing (although it would be quite nice if my soon to be beloveds could string a sentence together by the time they move on to secondary school ).

Yes, Mumwhensdinnerready and MrsGuy, they will be Looked After Children when they arrive and that will give them some priority, but only in the context of there being places available. A school won't create places for them. So I'm going to take all your advice and go and talk to the heads at both L and BP on Monday to try to get the children on the waiting list for both schools (in a Kafkaesqe world that only Councils could dream up, Richmond might not allow us to put the children onto a school list until we have been approved at Panel, whilst the children's council might not take us to Panel until the children have a place at school...)

Thank you all for your help. I'm quite sure I'll be back for more soon!!

bellesgirl, we were given the raised-eyebrow-fake-smile thing at dd's pre-school and by neighbours, last year - luckily, one of our neighbours is a Parent Governor, with a dd at Lowther, and took me to visit so I could form my own opinions

Daunting, yes, goodness, I bet - becoming a mother has to be one of the scariest prospects, however you get there! Luckily, once they arrive, you wont have time to be scared at all anymore

Good luck talking to the schools, and as for sentence-stringing - I think thats mostly set my homelife as opposed to school, but FWIW dd1, who started Reception not reading and uninterested in Phonics, is now 4-5 levels in to her reading books and, more importantly, loves it. She knew no one at school when she started (all her peers went to BP, St O's, or private schools) and within a week was talking about 'my school' and very excited. Its probably a little more chaotic than BP, in some ways, and far less well resourced in terms of materials, but really lovely staff and ethos.

Bellesgirl, call the head at L and ask if you can come to the evening for new reception parents which is TOMORROW NIGHT. This will give you a great feel for the school, even if your future DC does not yet have a place. And it is outside working hours! Some of it will be stuff about what the uniform is, but there will be chat from the teacher, and a powerpoint of what reception class did this year, plus some news on the new classroom (I hope).

DH and I will be there, and my boys are the same age as your DCs, so if you manange to swing an invite let me know.

Fridayschild, what wonderful advice - if only I'd seen it before the open evening happened!! Unfortunately I was helping aged parents in Cheltenham and so have only just got back onto the internet.

DH and I have an appointment to meet the headmistress next week - I just wish the school secretary had mentioned Tuesday's event when I booked last week...

But thank you so much for your thought.

Well the hot news is there will be TWO forms of 30 starting in September so your 4YO might be in with a chance of a place after all. If they are full in September - she might not know yet - I would ask if he can go to the nursery till there is a place in Reception for him. If he is "looked after" it probably won't be for all that long. In the new building it is all going to be much more fluid between nursery and reception classes but obviously this works well for someone in your boy's situation.

Actually the meeting was rather hijacked by the hot news about two form entry so I don't think you missed out all that much, TBH.

Hello Everyone!

I know this thread is months old, but can I ask a few questions (some of which are quite dopey, so apologies in advance, but I'm not from 'round 'ere)...

1. HellieB - what happened, did your dd get a place at your desired school? Hope so
2. How do you know the catchment areas of RuT primaries? I can't find anything on the net and refuse to believe estate agents! I presume it changes year on year, but rough ideas would be fantastic (I'm thinking The Vineyard/Marshgate)?
3. If you don't get offered a place at all ( that is a possibility) and you have to go private, haven't you already missed the boat by not putting their name down when you found out you were pregnant (!)?
4. Am I completely missing the point here, but don't you grade the 3 schools you want (1st choice, 2nd etc), they then (unaware of your preference), decide if you fit their criteria/numbers and if so offer you a place? From the sounds of this (and other threads), some kids are offered several places from which they then choose. My questions are, who the hell hangs onto 2 places knowing that some other parent is going out of their mind and secondly, haven't you already stated a preference, so shouldn't you only be offered your highest ranked place, thus releasing the other places for someone else?? Ok, it's a slightly more difficult process for the council to manage, but fairer?

Thanks for keeping with me, any comments/clarification gratefully recieved!!

Dolly

in answer to

2. You can't know the catchments because sibling numbers mean they change every year. But the council publishes a list of the furthest distance from each school to be accepted. If you wanted to be safe-ish, I'd make sure you were living AT LEAST 150 metres closer to the school than that so ie if last year it was 600 metres then make sure you are 450 metres and preferably closer away. Demand is growing all the time

3. You will never HAVE to go private, they will find a place for your child somewhere but you'll have a nervewracking time waiting. Don't worry about the putting names down at birth bollocks though, there are places in all the prep schools (whatever they may tell you) precisely because everyone is abandoning them for the excellent state sector.

I don't know anything about the last point, I've never heard of anyone hanging on to two state places though many hang on to one state and one private until the last minute.

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along soon

Hi MrsS,

You sound very knowledgable, so thank you very much for the reply! Do you have to call the council for these distances or are they published somewhere?

Thanks for the re-assurance about all children being offered a place somewhere. I had visions of 2nd jobs to pay fees or home tuition and bloodshed!

We've been renting in Richmond for over a year now and I'm itching to buy and "settle", but worried about the impact it has on school offers. I work in town, so the thought of having to bring my dd 3 miles to a school, then make my way to the station fills me with dread!

Thanks again for the reply, sounds like you survived the experience!

I survived, but it wasn't enjoyable. I think they are much better organised this year though, they've already told the schools which ones will have to accept bulge classes so it should be far less chaotic than in previous years

I'm sure the distances are online but I dont know where. If you call the education dept at the council they could prob send you the list from last year. Good luck and don't worry too much

Dolly,
The Local Authority have a booklet which would be for September 2010 entry that has all the schools in it. This is the web address for RuT booklet
www.richmond.gov.uk/admission_to_primary_school-2.pdf

This has every school in it and tells you how to apply. Regretably it should also give you the information that you were interested in - how far was the last successful applicant last year. This book does not and it should! I would phone up the admission office of the LA and demand to know the information.

There are no catchment areas in RuT, the admission criteria for the two schools you mention, that are both community schools, are based on giving priority to siblings and then shortest walking distance.

You have to express your preferences (not choices!)in order. There is a complicated process called equal preference that is used to sort out which school can offer you a place, based on the admission criteria of each school. You obviously need to go with your preferences but I would always put down you most local community school, even if it is your last preference, as under the equal preference scheme you have a fair chance of getting a place at the school.

The really bad news for you if your child should start school in Sept 2010 is that the closing date for applications for RuT was 4th December 2009. You will now be a late applicant and only be allocated a place after all the on-time applicants.

Last May we discovered that our DD hadn't got into any of our choices in Lewisham so had been allocated a school 2.8 miles away in the opposite direction (extra problematic because I teach at a primary school 800m from our home where DD was at nursery and there was no way I could get her to school 2 bus rides away and get to my own school on time!).

We rejected the offer, said we'd reserve the right to not send DD until she was of stautory school age (this Jan) and asked to go on the waiting lists for 3 local schools whilst awaiting to hear the outcome of our application to a primary in Bexley (my husband teaches at a secondary school over there so he would have taken her).

We were offered a place at the Bexley primary which we accepted. Shortly afterwards, during the second round of allocations we were offered a place at a local school (that we really didn't want DD to go to for professional reasons). She spent a very happy first term of Reception there but three days before Christmas a place became available at 'my' school so she's just started Reception for a second time!

We were 7th on the waiting list initially and have moved up much more quickly than I'd ever expected. Based on what I know about mobility patterns at my own school I'd anticipated that she would probably get a place sometime during Y1 or Y2.

Your LA have to find you a primary place within borough if you want one but it doesn't have to be within 3 miles; they have to find travel costs if it's beyond three miles but given that bus travel etc. is free in London I doubt you'll be offered anything financial.

Richmond have a policy of travel to school time for primary children; in practice this means they try to allocate a place within 3 miles from the child's home.

Someone will come along to ask me about this I'm sure - I heard about it on the grapevine, and I have heard Richmond Councillors talk about it during a cabinet meeting. I don't know what it's based on.

And I think the best advice has come from Admission. You do not choose a state school. You merely express a preference for one or more.

Helliebean1 - just to clarify one point, the Council are required by law to rank children on the waiting list in accordance with the published admission criteria (School Admissions Code para 3.19). They would be breaking the law if they ranked children without a place ahead of those who already have a place elsewhere.

If you think about it, though, it doesn't make that much difference. Whenever a child moves out of the area it will result in a child who doesn't currently have a school getting a place, although it may be at a different school. For example, suppose a child leaves school A. The child at the head of the waiting list already has a place at school B so, when they get a place at school A, there is now a place available at school B which will go to the child at the head of school B's waiting list. Either that will be a child without a place or, if they have a place at another school, a place at that school will become available.

Even if it is not official, as I local I know that the catchment areas for Vineyard/Marshage/Sheen Mount are all very small, SM especially and Marshgate has just become an 'outstanding' (OFSTED) school so it will undoubtedly be even smaller. However, there will be a bulge year this year at Marshgate (3 x reception classes of 30). They have a bulge year each year (5 schools in rotation) at the primary schools in our area.

Good luck and I hope you get what you want. Fwiw, the state primary schools in RUT are mostly excellent.

doh, 'Marshgate'!!