No school place available - East Sheen (Richmond Uptghe on Thames) Advice please!!!

[Helliebean1]

Hello - I'm new here but could really do with some advice.

Following from the disappointment of findout that not only did our dd not get one of her 3 chosen schools in East Sheen - she didn't get anything (much crying/shouting/stressing), I was advised by the council to 'remain calm' and wait to see how the waiting lists panned out. So today the lists became available and she is between 9th and 39th at the 6 schools she is on the waiting list for (with the majority being over 20th....) so not looking good. The lady at the council offices agreed that it 'doesn't seem fair' that children who have already been offered a place at a chosen school are ahead of my dd but that is the 'way it is'. She told me to call again in a few weeks after the council have had a while to consider a contingency plan... Sorry, is it me or should they have 'considered a plan' a little sooner??
So my question is, does any one have any experience of how much these lists move (given that we are in a bulge/credit crunch kinda year) and whether I would have any grounds at all for an appeal (no statement of special needs other than the need for a place at a school!!!) if she is eventually offered the only one school within 3 miles of our home that I don't want??
Any advice most welcome and thank you x

It does drive me insane, btw, that a community school has to turn away the offspring of the very community it serves. Even though it would rather not.

btw, if it helps at all, I think in dd's school's case, most of this year's sibling intake is from very close to the school - the further away ones are a very small minority afaik.

juju omg! (hijack cont. on Oxford school thread)

No the siblings policy wouldn't have any credit in turning the school around but the head would never have been able to turn it around without the pupils that stuck with the school. It takes a lot of courage from the parents to send their child to a "sink" school, it's hard to shake a bad reputation especially when it's something as emotive as education. Parental involvement is very important in a schools success, a few rouge parents can make even an inspirational heads life a misery. As I said the original children and their siblings from far away who were stuck in and stuck with the school will peter out. I know that it doesn't help you this year but it will help others in years to come.

I agree though about people moving out of the area. It is very annoying. We have this in our area. We live in the catchment for what was the worst secondary in the county which is right next door to 3 of the top 6. Our school is 1/3 full theirs are over-subscribed in thier own catchment areas. Loads of people rent and then move once they're in usually to our area as the houses are dirt cheap because of the dodgy secondary. People cry when they get allocated our school. But do you know what it's not that bad and it's improving each year.

Stringerbell - thank you, really good advice and I shall keep you posted. The council keep banging on about an example case in Greenwich several years ago where Greenwich council tried to prioritise local unplaced children over others and were penalised for being 'selective'. I think RuT are tiptoeing around in fear of being sued or challenged for being selective... I have written to Susaan Kramer and Zac Goldsmith who is the conservative candidate (I thought he might fancy a challenge) but so far nothing more than polite concern with promises to 'keep an eye on the situation'. And do you know the thing that's killing me is that I know so many people cheat/manipulate etc to get into schools round here. It's a known fact that there are some very wealthy families who rent houses near schools like Sheen Mount and don't even live in them, just for school applications, and when my mum mentioned to her neighbour the problems were having, the neighbour was actually baffled as to why we hadn't put down my mum's address on our application (which would have pretty much guaranteed us a place at one of our two favourite schools) but it didn't occur to me to try and cheat the system, and actually despite everything, I am still glad I didn't. But it still makes me angry to know that there are people with the money or affront to cheat their way in. Ah well Monday is but a few hours away so I shall be calling the council first thing to get an update on the lists. Good night !

Helliebean - Very briefly as I must go to bed!

I sit on school admissions appeal panels, although not in Richmond. Not having a school place is not in itself a ground for appeal, unless you can demonstrate that the schools to which you applied did not apply their admissions criteria properly or that their criteria do not comply with the admissions code (which you can find on the DCFS website).

The Greenwich case was (as I recall it) about giving preference to children who live in the borough. That was held to be unlawful. I think the potential difficulty about bumping children who have not got a place in any school up the waiting lists is that - at this stage anyway - the waiting lists will be arranged according to the admissions criteria. Assuming Richmond's criteria are like our borough's that means looked after children and those with documented special needs first, then siblings (although these would only be late applications who missed the first allocation) and then according to distance. If the distance criterion was ignored so that children with no school place were first on the list, the children bumped down the list would then (I think) have grounds for appeal. Once the waiting lists are handed to the schools (usually in September) the schools can manage them however they decide.

There's another thread about a mother being prosecuted for allegedly giving a false address to get her child into a Pinner school.

Good luck with your calls tomorrow!

Just as a quick note to all of those who seem to think schools can or should be ordered to simply take more pupils! It's generally down to issues of space. YOu can't just conjure a new classroo,/bigger dining hall etc out of nowhere.

Quite, Londonone. And there are further issues with (eg) foundation schools, which aren't under the LEA's control and are at liberty to say no.

I'm just bumping this to find out if Hellibean has had a place offered yet. I was at one of her first choice primaries this morning and the waiting list is down to 6, which might mean she's been lucky there!

Sympathise. Ds not offered place as crunch means influx of affluents competing for only decent state school greater than usual. Most disturbing realisation in all this (other than find myself amongst the desperate clawing at the doors of desirable school)is the difference between that and the nearest alternative. Visually a ghetto in comparison yet these are both state schools situated within a mile of each other. How has this happened? Upon talking to parents of the 'other' school, find that reports are good, children happy there despite inferior location and facilities. Snobbery, rise of the middle classes? Government not exempt from blame but perhaps as parents we have to accept responsibility too for creating divide. My old primary school very mixed, made friends from all backgrounds; such schools becoming a rarity i fear

I am also in RoT and my DD has not been offered a school place at all either. We were 15th on list for Barnes Primary and 16th for Lowther (our 2 nearest schools). No news yet and when I phoned the council I was told there was "no contigency plan". Looks like we will have to send our DD privately -we are fortunate that this is an option (for the short term anyway)

Any news from anyone else?

kitsilano

L have added another 10 places, so you should be higher up the list now. BP refused to add on any more. Phone the school directly, they are incredibly helpful, much more so than the council

Unofortunately that's AFTER the 10 extra places!

completely scandalous. a colleague of min with a new bay recently moved t e. sheen because of the excellent primary schools. luckily he is only renting so no financial commitment, because he was unaware that here he is living is currently no-mans-land school wise - will gently point his wife @ this thread...

new baby

no practical advice. Similar situation where we are in reigate. My ds got none of the three. A couple of weeks ago he got to the top of the third choice one so now has a place (meanwhile we put him in private as had to have an option as places were filling up fast - so will have to pay a terms fees). It's an awful situatuion to be in. Surrey County Council should be deeply ashamed of themeselves.

When I ask my local councillor and MP all I get is "there's no funding". This happens year after year here and is getting steadily worse. A new development has just been built which will mean an extra lot of school places need to be available in a few years where there aren't even enough now. And still you get, "no funding for extra school places".

Well I say, go back to central government or whoever, show them the stats and GET SOME F(&(&&& EXTRA FUNDING FOR NEW SCHOOL PLACES!

(maybe just don't get your moat cleaned this year .....)

Ongoingly, and utterly, at this state of affairs. My neighbour has asked my advice re primaries, as her dd is coming up to application age - I have no idea what to tell her.

A year ago, we had no problem getting into Lowther at all (different story for BP, though its closer, but luckily we preferred Lowther anyway) but this year? We'd have been place-less without a doubt. Almost equidistance between the two, slightly closer, by a few meters, to BP: you'd think we'd be spoilt for choice

I'm very grateful dd1 is in school, but very and that my neighbour's little girl won't have the same option. What on earth do people do when they don't have the option of going private?!?

We must live very close to each other Elibean !

Probably

Not far from pond...

just come back from our local authority offices and apparently primary school appeals are up 40% on last year this year and our LEA has 120 children currently with no school place for September. They also said the waiting lists have been moving much slower than expected becasue people haven't moved much in this round of admissions.....

Can anyone help me? My husband and I heard yesterday that we have been chosen to adopt two children (4 and 6). Nothing will be official until after our case is heard at Panel in August, but we have to find places in school for children we haven't met yet for September ! We live in Barnes, closer to Lowther than Barnes Primary, and would appreciate any feedback anyone would give us on some of the plus points (and minus ones if appropriate) of the local state schools. We have arranged to visit BP and L (although neither can offer the children places currently because of the waiting lists...) but as a first time (nearly) mum I am feeling completely lost about the sorts of things I should be looking for.

Off for an evening of Ofsted report reading!

Will the children still be "in care" when they first come to live with you until the adoption is finalised?
I don't know whether this will help you as I don't know how adoption works, but children who are " in care" get priority in schools admissions.

Nowadays they are called 'looked after' children (horrible expression) so will go to the top of the waiting list - put 'em down on both lists NOW!!!

Put them on the school waiting list NOW!