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Original poster

Could a dc who gets 2b in KS1 sats reach L5 in KS2 sats?

40 replies

scarybear · 27/03/2009 22:50

Just wondering as we are hoping dd (summer born)will get into the local grammar school in Y7. So she will need to be well above average, should we accept defeat now?
Thanks
sb

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Hebble · 27/03/2009 22:53

The average progress OFSTED expect children to make between Yr 2 and Yr 6 is 2 levels of progress so you are looking at 4b although school have to target two thirds of a level higher ehich could take it to 5c. However, maturity, confidence etc all have a bearing so can't really say. What year is she now?

EachPeachPearMum · 27/03/2009 22:57

It is perfectly possible to go from 2b to a 5. You won;t really know until Y4 I'd have thought.

Feenie · 27/03/2009 22:57

Yes - I've seen it happen lots of times. Children develop at different rates, and some 'take off' in Y2, some in Y3.

In Ofsted speak, an 'satisfactory' school should help your child progress from 2b to 4b. A 'good' school will help them progress from a 2b to a 4a/5c, or even a 5b. A lot can happen to a child in 4 years!

Metella · 27/03/2009 22:58

Yes - my nephew did this.

Original poster
scarybear · 27/03/2009 22:58

She's in Year 2,so I'm hoping the summer born disadvantages will disappear by Y6, it's a long way off but I an loathe to give up hope already. I also don't want to push too hard if ity isn't a realistic possibility.

OP posts:
coppertop · 27/03/2009 23:01

Yes it's possible IME.

Original poster
scarybear · 27/03/2009 23:04

Thanks for that. Do you think it's possible only by parental pushiness at home / tutoring or can it happen anyway just at school?

OP posts:
coppertop · 27/03/2009 23:08

The child I'm thinking of (also a summer-born) just had a sudden burst of progress towards the end of Yr3. No pushy parenting and no tutoring.

Feenie · 27/03/2009 23:10

It can happen anyway, due to developmental rates and/or a conscientious child. And teachers, I guess!

Feenie · 27/03/2009 23:11

Agree with coppertop, happens naturally a lot, ime. Actually, I've seen pushy parenting have the opposite effect aswell, I'm afraid!

RustyBear · 27/03/2009 23:19

Level 5 from a 2b is perfectly possible, but it still may not be enough to get into grammar school, especially if it's the only one in the area.

At the junior school I work at, we get at least a dozen level 5s every year,often more, but rarely more than 1 or 2 get into the very competitive grammar schools.

katiestar · 27/03/2009 23:35

Some grammar schools (ours for example) selects purely on verbal and non verbal reasoning and that sometimes throws up some surprises !
I thought children were supposed to go up 2 sub levels a year in which case you would be looking at a yearly progression 3C,3A,4B,and hitting 5C in Y6

katiestar · 27/03/2009 23:35

Some grammar schools (ours for example) selects purely on verbal and non verbal reasoning and that sometimes throws up some surprises !
I thought children were supposed to go up 2 sub levels a year in which case you would be looking at a yearly progression 3C,3A,4B,and hitting 5C in Y6

cat64 · 27/03/2009 23:40

This reply has been deleted

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Feenie · 27/03/2009 23:52

"I thought children were supposed to go up 2 sub levels a year"

'Average' progress is deemed to be 3 APS, which is 1 and a half sub-levels a year. 'Good' progress would be 2 sub levels.

Jesus, I've even bored myself there. Anyway, kids aren't robots, and very often fail to conform to either of these models, sometimes in a good way when they exceed these models, or spend a year consolidating.

Original poster
scarybear · 28/03/2009 10:33

Thanks for your replies. I presume, then, that a level 5a is what would normally be required for a highly competitive grammar school like ours?
sb

OP posts:
mloo · 28/03/2009 10:58

Why don't you ask the grammar school and ask, scaryb?

RustyBear · 28/03/2009 13:26

Ican't give details of the SATs levels of the children who got in as obviously that's confidential, but I can tell you about my own two, who went to the same school that I work in.

They were both straight level 3 at KS1 and 5 at KS2, DS took the Level 6 paper in Maths & was one mark off getting it; by the time DD did her SATs her school no longer did the Level 6 paper, but she only dropped 2 marks on the 3 Maths papers & her other scores were comparable, so I think you can say they were both very high level 5.

They both took the exam for grammar school (actually different schools as one was a boys' & one a girls' school) -DS got in, DD didn't. She went to a comprehensive & got very similar GCSE results to DS - all A & A* (better than a lot of her friends who did get in) then went to a sixth form college & got 5 As at A level.

The reason for posting this is not just motherly pride but to show that (a) you really can't be sure even the brightest child will get in to a grammar school and (b) that it doesn't have to be a disaster if they don't.

Original poster
scarybear · 28/03/2009 13:39

Thanks Rusty.

I also know a few children who I would have said were dead certs but actually failed and others who passed unexpectedly. The grammars here test maths instead of NVR, no idea why, as I thought NVR was a better way of assessing innate ability.

The reason for all the agonies around this area is that the secondary moderns for those who fail are terrible. I would give anything for a decent comp!

OP posts:
smartiejake · 28/03/2009 13:44

DD2 was a 2a in writing at the end of KS 1.

Half way through year 5 she has been assessed as 5b and she still has over a year before her year 6 SATs so easily possible to make more than two level in four years.

BUT as Rusty Bear says SATs successes are not always an indicator of a guaranteed place at grammar school. One of DD1s friends got straight level 5a in all subjects in KS2 she was tutored for the 11+ but did not get anywhere near a grammar school but is doing extrememly well at the local high school. (level 7s in year 8)

Another of her friends got 4as and 5cs in KS2 and got into grammar school simply by doing a few past 11+ papers.

BTW The break down of average progress through KS2 is as follows.

Year 3- one sub level
Years 4 and 5 -two sublevels.
Year 6 One sublevel.

Year 3 do not always appear to have made so much progress because of the discrepancy between infant and junior levels.

Year 6 spend so much time preparing for the tests that they cover less overall so less progress expected.(The best reason to get rid of the tests IMO)

popsycal · 28/03/2009 13:48

yes

QOD · 28/03/2009 13:57

My dd was 2 a in everything in yr 2

then

reading comprehension
yr 3 3b
yr 4 4b
early yr 5 5c

writing

yr 3 3b
yr4 4b
earlyu
yr 5 4b heading into 4a
maths

3c
3b
3a but apparently now working at 4b

so yes, its possible she might get there too

ICANDOTHAT · 28/03/2009 14:30

Year 4 is when 'things' started to change for my ds2. He was 2a in KS1 Yr2. Has just passed his 11+ in Yr6.

ICANDOTHAT · 28/03/2009 14:32

Sorry forgot to mention ..... many grammar and independent schools 'allow' for Summer birthdays when marking papers.

katiestar · 28/03/2009 14:40

Blimey QOD - how do you remember all that !