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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Could a dc who gets 2b in KS1 sats reach L5 in KS2 sats?

40 replies

scarybear · 27/03/2009 22:50

Just wondering as we are hoping dd (summer born)will get into the local grammar school in Y7. So she will need to be well above average, should we accept defeat now?
Thanks
sb

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QOD · 28/03/2009 15:09

LOL Because I had to update her maths tutor the other day 0 yes she has a tutor.....
I am sure I have bored you all before with the school burning down, horrendously disruptive yr 3 story....

CarofromWton · 28/03/2009 22:00

ICANDOTHAT - yes, that particular fact re: taking summer birthdays into account when marking papers is currently stressing me out!

DD1 (currently year 5) will be taking the test for our local grammar school in November. She is currently L5 in all subjects and her teacher says she may even achieve L6 in the KS2 sats.

However, she is a September baby and I can't help feeling that she will have to be that little bit better than the summer babies to have a chance at getting into the v. competitive grammar school. One of her best friends will also be taking the test at the same time - she is an August baby and also a high flyer. I can't help feeling resentful of this marking system. I know summer babies are supposed to be at a disadvantage but I know of plenty who don't fall behind.

singersgirl · 28/03/2009 22:06

Grammar school tests are quite different from SATs. SATs includes a writing component and lots of grammar schools are just VR and NVR.

I know children who got 2b for one or more subjects in their SATs who are in line to get 5s this year in Y6. But we're not in a grammar school area....

kittybrown · 28/03/2009 22:40

I think summer born babies are generally disadvantaged. Our school has a 3 intakes each year so the summer borns start after easter and only get one term to get to grips with the rules of school before they go into year one.

It's interesting that in our school 95% of the children on the G&T register are born in the month from Sept to April. Yes there are children born in the summer who do well but there are plenty who struggle to hit their stride academically until they reach secondary school.

seeker · 29/03/2009 08:32

My dd passed her 11&divid; but got 2 5s and a 4 for her year 6 SATs if that helps at all.

tigermoth · 29/03/2009 09:02

kittybrown, really interesting what you say about the G and T children not being August born. I wonder if that percentage is typical of many schools?

FWIW, my oldest ds, now at grammar school, was around a 2b at the end of ks1 and got low level 5s and high 4s in his ks2 SATS (his marks were a bit less than expected due to him having tonsillitus the week of the SATS).

Also, take into account how hard your child is working in class. Did they get a 2b through lots of hard work? On every report for my ds1 his teachers stated he was able but underperforming - he didn't work well in class, but everyone thought he was capable of much more if he chose to put his mind to it.

In contrast, my ds2, though he also got around 2b at KS1, is a harder worker - 'working hard' is a phrase that crops up on his reports quite a lot. And these reports never say he is capable of doing much better. Now in year 5, he is in lower sets than ds2 was at this age, despite getting similar marks as ds1 in tests.

nooonit · 29/03/2009 09:09

I think it's highly unlikely that a current Y3 will sit SATs by the time they reach y6.

I think it's probably likely that whatever new assessment system is brought in may benefit your DD - a more accurate picture of ability than exam snap shot?

It'll just be a question of what Grammar schools will then take as evidence. From what I've heard much more importance is placed on 11 plus which is a whole different kettle of fish altogether!

As the Mum of a 4yr old Summer born who started school in January, I wish you look all the way!

Quattrocento · 29/03/2009 09:28

Just a few thoughts:

SATS results are entirely irrelevant. Many a 5a er flunks the 11+.

The good thing about the 11+ is that they weight the result for ages, so summer borns will not be disadvantaged.

I do think there is some potentially adverse impact of parental expectation. So for instance where a family (and I have known 2) moves into the catchment area to improve chances of getting in, and then the child does not do well enough, the child ends up feeling a sense of failure. It's important to cushion them from that, if at all possible.

Good luck to your DD.

kittybrown · 29/03/2009 13:12

Tigermoth - I expect it's more common in primary schools as sats/optional sats are not
standardised. It's a relativly new scheme in primary and many use termly test results as their only factor to determine giftedness.

Secondary schools now tend to use CAT scores along with sat scores to help identify those who should be achieving and these are standardised. This is similar to the 11+ system. NVR, VR and CAT's test for fluid intelligence, how well one can make inferences and deduce infromation. Sat's on the otherhand tests crystallised intelligence, knowledge skills and experience.

LadyGlencoraPalliser · 29/03/2009 18:14

DD1 (late summer born) got 2a in her KS1 Maths. She was L5 by the end of Y5 and is now in Y7 and in the top set in Maths (out of a year group of 300). We got her report on Friday and she is L6 and scoring an average of 85% in her class tests.
When she was 7 we thought she was not very good at Maths.

hippipotamiHasLost14Pounds · 29/03/2009 19:58

Yes, they can.
Ds (end of August baby) achieved 1b's in his KS1 SATS.
So he had extra help in Y3 after being placed in the bottom stream for literacy and maths. By Y4 he had caught up and came off the extra help.
By the end of Y4 he moved into the middle stream for both literacy and maths.
He is now in Y5 adn they have just assessed them. They did not tell us the grades but have told me at parent's evening that he could achieve level 5 for literacy and maths as long as he keeps working as hard as he has been over the past few terms. He is certainly expected to comfortably achieve 4a's for both, so with a little work 5's should be doable!

Feenie · 29/03/2009 20:42

Wow, that's amazing, Hippi. I've never seen that kind of progress! You must be very proud of him.

hippipotamiHasLost14Pounds · 30/03/2009 08:06

I a He has really taken off. And his behaviour has changed too. He used to fidget in class and mess about and be the class clown. But since Y4 he is really motivated and wants to work hard and do well
The teachers at his school are brilliant though and have really inspired him

And if he does not reach 5's then no matter, 4a's are brilliant enough!!

MrsBartlet · 30/03/2009 12:29

Scarybear - you need to check if allowances are made for age in your area. Here in Essex there are no allowances made for age. DD is in Y7 at a girls grammar and she went to a lot of birthday parties between September and December!

Original poster

scarybear · 30/03/2009 13:10

Yes, the results of the 11+ tests here are age-standardised. I still think summer-borns lose out in terms of maturity though, even if they have caught up academically.

Thanks for all your replies, I'm feeling more hopeful about the whole thing now!

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