Ok please don't flame me.. question about statement for reception child

[sagacious]

Child is in reception (started in January)From the start its clear he has behavioural issues (eg punching other children in the face regularly)I help out in the class there isn't an hour that goes by where something doesn't happen.

Teacher is lovely but ineffective (she seems to think because he will sit still for timeout .. albeit it crying uncontrollably, there is no problem)

Mother has been told the school is sorting out a statement (shes unsure what exactly this is) but this CANNOT be started until year 2.

Surely this cannot be right. The child clearly needs help now.

salome - SA is not a waste of time if the provision arrangement is honoured by the school/ LEA but they are certainly under no legal obligation to do so, and as such there is no recourse for the parents to take if the support detailed in SA is not provided, or discontinues for whatever reason.

agree with that electra. but I would find it unusual that if a child was on school action, and had the input from other professionals who are employed by LEA or LA such as OTs, SALTs, Ed Psychs, then you do have a recourse if it is not carried through, either to the Chief Exec of the LA, who is the boss of the LEA in most cases, or in others to the secretary of state for Ed.

I'm quite a believer in going straight for the big stick when it comes to whipping school management into place.

Having said all that I am tearing my hair out that the tiny bits of extra work my ds needs to support him are not being implemented in class. That's where is can really fall down, and I say that as a parent and also as an ex LSA, getting statements and action plans to work mean getting teachers who are untrained in SEN work to go along with it, and all too often children with action plans and IEPs just get lost in class, despite all the input from professionals, because teachers simply do not have the knowledge or support to implement IEPS.

Yes, I realise that cat - I was merely pointing out that this is the reason why parents should apply. If a child is already in school the parent will have to be the one to take on the task of getting the statement imo, with the school's help. The school will be able to help compile evidence. Though it does depend on the LEA - some are more reasonable than others.

If the child has a suspected SN, or a possible diagnosis, his parents will need to get a referral through their GP to a developmental paediatrician as this is the only professional able to make a diagnosis. Ed Psychs can make recommendations for provision but cannot make a dx.

behavioural issues need a behaviour plan in the first instance, not a statement. you would have no idea as a classroom helper of his medical history.

in your place, you should be asking about appropriate measures to support him if you feel you can not manage. (i assume you are there in some sort of helper context). that is the only input you should have.

get the mother to speak to the senco at the school or the Area IncCo at the LA if she believes her child has SN or needs an EP evaluation, and she feels the teacher is not taking the situation seriously enough. do not allow her to use you as a spy to report back on the school's actions. she needs to deal with this, not you. none of your business, and way beyond your remit.

most yr r classes have children that struggle with the routine and rigidity of school based activity. yr r teachers will have seen it all before and generally will know when to call in the professionals. no school will put off getting a statement where it is a necessity, it doesn't make financial sense.

The OP said in the first post that the school had already discussed statementing the child, which indicates that there has already been far more to the situation than she has posted. Schools don't tend to talk about statementing a child unless they feel that this child has needs that they cannot meet with their existing resources. If it were a minor problem they would be talking about IEPS, etc...

I have no idea why anyone would think that statementing a child is a bad idea when they really need extra support, which they will not get from a class teacher who has neither the time nor the training to provide it. Meanwhile, the child's experience of mainstream will become ever more miserable, as will those of his peers. And it can take up to a year to get a statement in place anyway. There is no time to lose when a child is not able to access their education or integrate properly.

The talking about how things can be improved and the doing it, cannot happen until a statement is in place. You can talk all you want, but the fact is that extra staff will be required to address the problems that this child is having at school. And anyway, how are you to decide what approach is appropriate until the child's needs have been assessed?

You may think it is inappropriate to 'jump in'. But from what is posted here the situation sounds as if it will get worse before it gets better. You can start the statementing process and keep lines of communication active with the school - what is wrong with that? Surely better than doing nothing and hoping the situation will improve without the need for a statement.

agree with electra. obviously we have very limited info from the poster. but it sounds on the basis of limited info that the school are not convinced they can give the child sufficient help/resources without extra funding if they are talking about needing statementing further down the line. I also fail to see the harm in the mother being made aware of procedures/sources of info.

Just a thought, maybe the mum in question (whom the op says didn't really understand the whole SEn statement thing) might have got the wrong end of the stick. The school might well have said that he would'nt get a statement immediately, because it takes quite a time to get a statement for any child. Little boy I looked after in school was patently in need of one, and duly got it, but it took a good couple of years even with well informed middleclass parents who had lawyer on the case. And several appeals as well.

Staements are not the pancea for every type of problem that a child displays in Reception for heaven's sake. This is why the system is grinding to a halt because it is full of parents demanding their rights, having been advised on internet forums etc to do so. A statement is a very expensive procedure that is intended to support children for whom every other mainstream avenue has been exhausted and where clearly their needs cannot be met. It is not for a parent helper in a classroom to decide whether this course of action is appropriate on the basis on earwigging and rubbernecking.

If a child needs 1:1 then a statement is required - it's as simple as that. The OP has not decided this - she clearly indicated that the school is discussing the need for a statement.

'This is why the system is grinding to a halt because it is full of parents demanding their rights, having been advised on internet forums etc to do so.'

Nice attitude(!) - and one which saddens and disappoints me. God forbid that parents should actually expect to get what their child is entitled to - a decent start in life - which is imo their human right. I have seen situations where nothing is done until the child is 8 years old and a lot of damage results.

The fact is, if you have to go to tribunal to get what your child needs, whatever the provision, the panel cannot order it unless there is a legal basis to do so. Why should we not demand our child's rights??

again agree with electra. The system is grinding to a halt because it's underfunded, and intervention at the pre-school level is virtually non-existent in some areas. The LEA is perfectly capable of refusing a request for an assessment. And the vast majority of these refusals are overturned at tribunal.

bamboostalks, you should try working in a school where childrens needs are not met on a daily basis - frequently because many parents refuse to acknowledge that their dc's actually need help."boys will be boys" etc, when in fact the child has clear behavioural issues. early intervention is crucial, nip it in the bud before the child becomes alienated the problems escalate. That really really upsets me, not the parents who spot their dc is struggling and want to work with the school to get the best out of their child. That is our job as parents. we aren't just passive consumers of whatever education gets thrown our way, we are partners, and in the case of the OP, possibly concerned advocates for all children.

Quite, salome.

The fact is, there are many children in the school system who have acquired a statement because their parents have pushed and pushed, having determined that it will solve all their problems whilst other children (often more needy) lose out. In the last 20 years there has been an explosion in the amount of children being statemented, this is neither desirable or is it sustainable. It is also extremely questionable as to the real benefits of statementing every child that displays need. Obviously in cases of profound learning needs, it is a given but in those more moderate and borderline conditions I believe that there are other ways to support children. I have been through the statementing process and also sat on the appeals panel so have seen this from both sides and over many years.

I don't see how granting a statement one child could disadavantage another. There is no limit to statement allocation, all those who need them should get them, the fact is many children who should have statements dont because they are refuse, or the level of support is inadequate to meet that child's needs. Not every child needs a full statement, but many many children do need extra help through Action, Action plus, IEPS etc.

You say there has been an explosion in children needing help in the last 20 years. Well, that might be down to the fact that we include children with SEN in schools instead of siphoning them off into special schools, and that many previously undiagnosed SN are now recognised and dealt with. ASD dyslexia and dysphraxia spring to mind. I for one am glad those kids are no longer labelled stupid or thick or difficult and get the help they need.

I do object to the idea that it is wrong for parents to push to realise their child's rights. The old chestnut - that children with statements are causing others to 'lose out' . It is nonsense when provision cannot be enforced without a clear legal basis. Do you work for the SEN tribunal service then bamboostalks? If so I find your views odd as you will know that decisions cannot be made except on points of law.....

A child with a severe behavioural problem will reqire extra staff (a TA at least), to implement any interventions which are needed to address the behaviours. I do not see any other way that this could be accomplished. cat64 suggests above that the school and parents could come up with strategies to deal with his behaviour and take data on triggers, etc to work out a solution. All sensible suggestions but how are you going to do it unless you have a TA? The class teacher is not going to have the time or the training...

bamboostalks - I am interested to hear you detail the 'other ways' that a child's needs can be addressed - how do you do it without extra staff? If there is something I haven't heard of I would genuinely be interested to hear about it...After all, the OP is asking for solutions so that she can suggest ways to help this child.

I also agree that statementing is not always beneficial. But it certainly is beneficial in every case where there is properly worded, fully quantified and qualified support set out clearly and unambiguously in parts 3 and 4. Wooly wording, is of course useless and in such cases renders the statement useless.

Look we could be here debating this forever, cannot believe I have embroiled myself in a statement thread, I feel I am at work! Of course it is true that a high number of statements compromises the provision of education to the masses, there is only a finite budget and as, yes, you have to folllow the letter of the law, there will statements provided from monies that would otherwise be spent on other initiatives benfitting other children. Simple economics. But clearly there are alternatives (too long to delve into here) to the statementing of some children (and yes, particularly ones with behaviour problems). This is evidenced by the vastly different statementing rates for LAs with very similar demographics. I recently undertook a study into the achievements of those children who had been statemented for behaviour problems before the age of 7 and their outcomes were so phenomenally depressing that it is what has made fundemaentally question what we are doing in this regard. Imvho, provision in parts 3 and 4 for behaviour statements is never addressed and is always woolly.

I think that's the problem on commenting on something one of us are really sure of...but I for one have found it interesting and have learnt a couple of things (yes!bamboo! v. interesting info re comparitive studies).

Would the concensus be that SENCO is first stop then? I think so.

Oh bamboo, I meant it! really just read my post and saw it might look sarky. Not meant to at all ;) didn't know that.

'Imvho, provision in parts 3 and 4 for behaviour statements is never addressed and is always woolly.'

bamboo - interesting. Which study? Do you have a link? Wording in statements is often wooly, but can be appealed on and a tribunal can often sort out wording so that it is not wooly. Indeed, wooly wording is illegal and LEAs have been warned of their obligation to quantify and qualify provision.

cat64 - is it usual for SENCOs to do 1:1 work with a child? I thought not. A child with behavioural problems would probably need this for a considerable amount of the day.

'A Reception class will have a TA anyway.'

Yes - but in a class of 30+ children the classroom TA will already have way too much to do to have time to implement a specially designed 1:1 program for a child who has considerable behavioural problems. I know this from experience. When I have done voluntary work in primary schools, I usually worked with the children who had learning difficulties but did not have a statement. And when I wasn't there they had nobody.

'Why won't the teacher 'have the time or the training' ? That is all part of his/her job.'

I disagree with this on the basis that every primary school teacher that I know has done maybe a 2 hour course on SN which they complained was totally inadequate. Primary school teachers are generally stressed to the core with the sheer expectations that they are required to meet for 30+ children. For this person to be primarily responsible to address a child's behavioral problems is, quite frankly unworkable.

'but the budget is not elastic....'

Sorry, but tough.... the budget is not our child's problem. We parents have the right to expect LEAs to comply with their statutory requirements and to behave ethically and in a way which is lawful. If the Education Act and the SEN Code of Practice support our expectations for our children to get what they are entitled to then we have a right to see those things upheld. If the council are not using their money effectively, why should that be a problem that is dumped on our children?

I would agree with electra that the best course of action if a statement is needed is for the parents to apply for the statement. I applied with ds1 was 3. He got fill time 1:1 support because that is what he needed, he also had SALT in parts 2 and 3 of the statement so the LEA had to pay for a private SALT when the NHS one went on maternity leave.

The first port of call for the mother is IPSEA really - they will give independent advice which is very important.

Statements such as 'he can't have a statement until he's been here 2 years' would have every alarm bell I possess ringing. A statement may or may not be appropriate, but whoever is telling her that does not know what they are talking about- and she needs to get independent advice asap.

Another thing you may like to consider doing is looking at your LEA/LA websites as they often set out the guideline criteria for SEN or extra funding criteria and banding's.