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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

out of catchment area but siblings attend school

45 replies

Emmsy1 · 13/03/2009 19:33

Hi ladies, I have a DS who should start school in September, the school we want him to attend is out of our catchment area. He has 3 siblings that attend the school, their original school that was in our catchment area was closed down by the council (falling birthrate etc...) We picked a good school for them and they have really settled in well,it was a big upheaval and very stressful at the time but they are all doing very well. The problem is that already the list for reception is 33 and the school are only allowed to take 30! I am at my wits end with worry that my DS will not be allocated a place, and that the council will expect me to find him another school, I have a 5 month old baby and all my oldest child is only 9, have been told that the letters will be sent out on 31st March and that I fit criteria no 5, feel sick to my stomach, just hoping for some advice.

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madwomanintheattic · 13/03/2009 19:39

depends if they are oversubscribed lol, not a lot you can do until the day... not sure how you know there have been 30 applications for places though? they don't usually publish the figures until the place allocations are out...

my only advice is to try and relax, and distract yourself. there is absolutely nothing you can do at this point.

(dd1 is also in out of catchment school,with ds1 just having got his sibling place lol, so i do know how you are feeling. having had 3 in 3 different schools in two different counties, the school run was beginning to wear a little lol. have you not applied for an in county place as a back up though? usually they do recommend that...

twinsetandpearls · 13/03/2009 19:43

It depends on the schools admission policy, my dd previous school changed their policy so being in catchment came before siblings. The school was always oversubscribed so parents who were not catholic or in catchment starting moving their children out knowing it was very unlikely the siblings would get in.

littlebellsmum · 13/03/2009 20:12

We had the same problem - catchment children before siblings , but hit lucky and ds got a place. I also thought the school was oversubscribed ( lots of kids in the attached nursery going to the school and I seem to know lots of kids going) and was expecting to have 3 months of stress over his place but the letter .
However, when the letter came in, it said he had a place and we all danced a jig round the kitchen.
Hope you are dancing on April 1st!

Original poster

Emmsy1 · 13/03/2009 21:05

hi MWITA one of the mums let it slip, the head had told her that a list was sent to her at christmas with names of all who want to attend their school, it had 33 on it, I have checked with the head and she said that things may have changed since then (I doubt it though!) if anything more children will have applied. I haven't applied as I really thought there wouldn't be a problem, and I do not want my LO to be at school with out his siblings. I will not move the others again, they have been through too much this last few years. The council promised us that we would all get the schools that we wanted when they closed our school down, they forgot to mention that they would let us down in the future when it comes to siblings. Maybe I should just chill out and see what happens, this worrying will probably make me ill!
littlebellsmum really hope I can do a little jig on 1st April, wish the mum who told me, hadn't! she seemed really pleased when she told me, maybe she forgot I was out of catchment
Hi Twinsetandpearls rang education dept, they definately put catchment before siblings, it's not looking too good is it, may have to get in touch with MP and remind him of what the council promised when they closed the school! Might even try the papers again, they were very helpful when we tried to save our original school. Oh pooh, really could do with out this hassle, we will just have to wait and see!

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Ohforfoxsake · 13/03/2009 21:15

You can appeal any decision. schoolappeals.com have lots of useful information.

Presumably there is a waiting list, and there will be some movement in that I assume. Places came up in our heavily over-subscribed school on the first day of term, some people simply don't tell the school they don't take their places and by then everyone else is sorted elsewhere.

I decided I would homeschool until a place came up. I asked the school to support me in this. In the end we got a place in June through the waiting list. I went through the appeals process (fruitless, but had to try). The LEA knew me after a month or two, as I was calling every day .

I'd say sit tight. A place will come up eventually. Its ever so stressful, so best of luck with it.

Ohforfoxsake · 13/03/2009 21:18

Can I ask why you haven't applied? We wouldn't be considered sibling or not if we didn't send the form in.

I do feel for you. We are moving next year and I've already been told its very unlikely my 4 will get into the same school. Dreading it already.

Original poster

Emmsy1 · 13/03/2009 22:10

OFFS hi, and thanks to all you girls for your advice. I did apply for the school where 3 siblings are, and I did it before the 15th Dec, what I meant to say before was I didn't apply for a school in my catchment area because I want him to be with his sibs, I have also thought about home teaching, thought that I could do it for the first year as not due to go back to work until next june (would give up my job if necessary) I have just been through the booklet that education sent to us, and they state that they will only allow home teaching in very rare situations, yet when I looked on internet it says that its the parents choice, as long as your providing an education? I have already taught him to read so feel as though I could do this if all else fails, how did your school help you?

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littlebellsmum · 14/03/2009 08:38

33 children for 30 places is really not that oversubscribed, I'm sure you will be fine. These things tend to move as people move in and out of area, change their minds about schools etc
Not a lot of point in worrying untill it happens though and even when you get the letter that isn't the end. Last year we had moved house and so my dd was a late entrant for each school we applied for. She got offered a place at out catchment school one month after the other places were offered and then a place at our prefered out of catchment school in July. I believe one further place was added after her in August

Our school took 34 kids this year by moving 4 straight into yr1 to try and fit more in

Good luck

madwomanintheattic · 14/03/2009 08:47

oops. we always have a 'just in case' application lodged in county lol. but i guess it's too late for that now! it just means that it's slightly less stressful waiting to get ot the top of the waiting list if you don't get a place on the first try. the numbers aren't that high - you'll probably get a place anyway. no point stressing, try and forget it until the letter hits the mat...

lbm - they can do that out of early years - i thought it was strictly not allowed to have more than 30 in a yr r class? have they employed additional staff? the only way they can exceed the PAN i think is for same cohort siblings... unless the 4 who went straight into yr 1 were late birthdays whose parents had opted out, so they should have been yr 1 in any case? in which case not sure they should have been on the application for yr r places list? how odd!

mazzystartled · 14/03/2009 08:51

well it's not massively oversubscribed. the favourite school round here had 45 first choice applications last year.
even IF you don't get a place first time, there's usually a bit of a shakedown between March & September.
Is it church school? Do you know what the other 4 priority criteria are?
I wouldn't stress until it happens.
Btw if don't get in and you haven't nominated any other choices, the LEA will allocate your child a place at a school - usually the nearest with available spaces.

Original poster

Emmsy1 · 14/03/2009 09:42

mazzystartled
no its not a church school, and its not the best school in the area but it is very good, when council closed our school I could not get my kids into the best school as they could only take 2 of them and I wanted them together, really pleased with the results so far!

The 4 other criteria before me are:;

children being looked after by others (eg.social services)
children with medical conditions (think its a signed statement?)
Inzone children with siblings.
Inzone children without siblings.

anyone else know much about home education?, as if he cant get in, in september this seems to be the best way around it while he is on the waiting list

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Original poster

Emmsy1 · 14/03/2009 09:44

was told by education that they don't often get children from the first 2 catergories so I could treat myself as in criteria 3!

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mazzystartled · 14/03/2009 10:16

well, yes that was going to be my point. when i asked at our first choice school they had people applying from MILES away. with only 3 over the intake you might be in luck.

also when is his birthday - not legally obliged to be in school until term after turn five, so no need to formalise home ed in a massive hurry.

Original poster

Emmsy1 · 14/03/2009 10:35

he will be 5 in November, so does that mean he should start he legally start school after christmas?

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Original poster

Emmsy1 · 14/03/2009 10:36

sorry about my posts, have children here with me now!

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Ohforfoxsake · 14/03/2009 11:58

Theres loads of positive information on here for home ed. I wrote to the head teacher and spoke to the teachers I knew (DS1 went to nursery at the school, but it didn't mean he got a place in reception automatically). I wanted them to know how much I wanted DS to go there, because there was a time when the list would eventually be passed to the school, and even if that was half way through the first term I wanted them to know I wanted a place badly.

I didn't apply for anywhere else either. I'd chosen the school I wanted for them and that was that. (Stubborn? Me?)I also wrote to my MP, it certainly doesn't do any harm.

But I agree, don't stress just yet. There's a lot that can happen between now and September

Oh, and BTW, I was one of those completely obsessed taking up every waking moment nightmare mothers about it

mazzystartled · 14/03/2009 12:18

legally, he does not need to be in full time education until the term after he turns 5.
in practice an oversubscribed school probably wouldn't let you defer an offer of place until the january, but you won't be in legal trouble if you don't begin hardcore homeschooling or sending him somewhere until then. it just gives you a further term's room for manouvre if it comes to that.
hope you get good news straight away

Original poster

Emmsy1 · 14/03/2009 15:34

Thanks girls, I feel so much better about it all now!
My DS is also at the nursery now I thought that he would just get into the primary school automatically. Not too long to wait to find out if all this worry has been in vain If he doesn't its going to be very hard for him, come september, he will see all the nursery children in uniform when he collects his siblings and he won't be a part of it. Actually it would probably be harder for me he would love it, it he didn't have to go. He's a little on the shy side with 'other' children, don't want him to be left out when all the children start bonding with each other. If it's not one worry it's another, going to have to stop this, I am getting on my own nerves!

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littlebellsmum · 14/03/2009 20:39

Madwomanintheattic - just to clarify, the school do this every year as it's a really popular school. Basically, they see how many spaces they have in yr 1 and fill them with reception kids. They take the oldest in the new reception year who have been to the attached nursery and they just start at yr 1. This means that both classes are no more than 30, some kids miss reception, more kids get in and everyone seems happy. It sems to work but is a bit unusual but then, every school seems to do it differently

madwomanintheattic · 16/03/2009 09:26

do they do it in agreement with parents? i'm just a bit bemused really - dd2 would be the oldest in the group, and having sweated blood to get her a yr r place at our school of choice, i think i'd be a bit peeved if they told me she was going into yr 1... do they do two years in yr1? or do they miss out a year of their edication altogether? redo a different year later on?

not having a go - really very curious how it works. i can see how it would work in a small school with mixed year group glasses, but not one where a cohort moves through the school together... at what point do you split them up from their cohort to put them back in with their year group? or do they really just miss out on a whole year of free childcare education?

i'm a governor for an infant school, and have honestly never heard of children starting in year 1 except in a few cases where parents have opted out until the stat ed age, and even then they go in with the correct cohort except in cases of sn etc... fascinated! really interested in how other schools manage - we just cut off at the PAN except for appeals or same cohort sibs... have never heard of a school doing anything else...

madwomanintheattic · 16/03/2009 09:27

(also a v popular infant school btw - always oversubscribed...)

littlebellsmum · 16/03/2009 20:13

Parents seem very happy with it - don't know how it works in the latter years cos obviously they can't go into the next school untill they are the right age, so I assume they just do one year twice? But as I said, don't know - will know more as dd gets older!
I assumed that they just left them in with their correct age group as spaces opened up but that doesn't seem to be the case.
My concern was that they wouldn't have friends of their own age for when they did move schools but it's a really friendly school and they seem to mix really well - most of dd's friends are in different classes!
Has meant that my dd is the oldest in her class by quite a way, as she is an early septemebr baby and wasn't at the attached nursery and so couldn't go into yr1 straight away. Having siad that she would have been gutted if she couldn't go into yrr as the classroom is great with a big indoor climbing house!

Original poster

Emmsy1 · 19/03/2009 14:40

LBM I was talking to one of the mums about what they do in your school. She said that they also did that in our school a few years ago, but it was all very messy. I will approach the head about this idea if I need to.
The same mum told me that although there has to be 30 in the class when reception starts in September. There is no rules that says it has to stay that way after September?? I can't find anything in writing that confirms that this is true, does anyone have any ideas? I have only read that class sizes can go over 30 when the children go into the juniors (Y3)

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katiestar · 19/03/2009 17:13

But on that list of 33 there will no doubt be some out of catchment and without siblings ,or some living further awy yhan you.I'm sure you will be fine certainly by september

katiestar · 19/03/2009 17:13

But on that list of 33 there will no doubt be some out of catchment and without siblings ,or some living further awy yhan you.I'm sure you will be fine certainly by september

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