I am worried that dd is becoming a selective mute - especially at school!!!

[Yurtgirl]

She is 4 1/2.

I would love some reassurance that she is just shy............

I will need some convinving!
TIA

Anyone?

DD was slower than average to speak, she still isnt fluent but is fine with her friends

I found out yesterday that she wont talk to the teachers at school unless she has a reason to - eg toilet.

She frequently turns away and refuses to speak when I ask her a question

Im not sure whether I should worry or not! Is she very shy around adults or selectively mute????????

Bump for any nightowls who may have experience of this

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!

Either I am going to eat worms or you lot are selective mutes as well in which case Ill have to forgive you

Oh dear yurtgirl - I don't know about selective mutism but don't want the post to go unanswered.

Has the school mentioned any concerns? they usually have a senco based in the school and are quite quick to refer to SALT etc

They think she is just very shy
She has been referred for speech and language therapy this week

Evidence suggests to me that she is more than just very shy - but I am not entirely sure what the differences are

my DD3 used to be like this. in fact, at parents evening they were stunned to hear her speak to me, as they had never heard to speak to anyone (even me at drop-off) before.

she is now 10, and much better than before, altho still has her moments. the teachers often struggle to hear her when she does speak, altho she will converse happily with her friends now, which she also never did when small.

only problem we are left with now is that often when someone talks to her, she just stares back at them, which is very unerving, even for me! I asked her recently why she did it, and she seemed genuinely shocked as according to her, she responds.

problem is, I think the thinks the words, and expects us to just know.......we are not telepaths tho.

one bit of advice, try not to make an issues of it, as it gets harder to get over then. my DD3 was yr2 before she started to talk without being spoken to first, and probably yr4 before she voluntarily approached the teacher/put her hand up in class. she is yr5 now, and like I say, much much better, but still not what I called 'relaxed' (IYGWIM).

Hi Psycho, on thinking I now remember you posting about your dd before I think!

Was she officially diagnosed as being selective mute (if that is what happens)

How was it decided that she was more than just shy iyswim?

We will have to wait several weeks for the appointment with the S&L, which is tooooo long as I am fretting now!

DD1 was like this. I worried about her a lot. I found out a bit about selective mutism and she did indeed show many of the signs.

For various reasons we made a decision just to plod on and do nothing about it. The improvements were very gradual. She is now 15. I would describe her now as a normal but shy teenager. She is still quiet at school and rarely, if ever, puts up her hand in class. The best teachers have been the ones who have made a point of directing questions to her instead of waiting for her to volunteer answers. She does have some good friends and has also surprised me by joining after school activities and out of school activities on her own and making new friends there. A few years ago I just wouldn't have been able to imagine this. She is doing work experience soon and she organised it herself and attended an interview etc. Some of her (more outgoing) friends went for safer options, local schools etc., so I was very proud of her for choosing something different and not 'safe'.

One thing I would say is that, tempting as it is to always speak for her, try to endure the embarassing silence when she is asked a question. Although in the end I always had to reply for DD, or explain that she was shy and may not reply, I think it's important for them to get the idea that the person asking the question can't really just be ignored.

Hope that helps. Can't offer a solution really but wanted to tell you our experience.

We have been going through this for two years with my D.d who will be five on Saturday.She has never spoken in school, neither to her teachers not to friends and will not even speak to me until we are safely off school grounds and in the car. She frequently has wet pants,as she will not ask to go to the loo, and obviously is missing out big time on the social aspect of the school yard. At home she is really outgoing and chatty,she does, bizarrely get lots of birthday invitations, although she never talks when she is there. She is getting help from the school, as there is a special needs teacher who works with her in a small group,and we are starting with a child psyhologist tomorrow. I have posted here in great desperation before,and was directed to the Selective Mutism association,who had lots of good advice,including how to involve the school. One of the key pieces of advice for me was to see her as a victim rather than being provocative,which is sometimes the reaction she evokes. Last thing,just to clarify the last comment, she will sometimes,for no apparent reason,chatter away to people that she hardly knows,especially if I am not there, whereas she refused for three days to speak to my sister and her two little girls,even though she has known them all her life. Phew,this is long,but lastly,my best piece of advice is to do something about it,as children can rarely fix it themselves.

I think that you ought to get this investigated. In Ireland, a psychologist makes this diagnosis, I think(racking brains), I know a Mum who was told her dd was "just shy" and she was 12 before being told that she had selective mutism...

Thankyou for writing about your experiences all, it is really helping!

Sobloodystupid - I supsect for a long while I will be told she is 'just shy'. I wonder how they differentiate between shy and selectively mute?

selectivemutism

Pinkhousesarebest I found the link above because of what you mentioned, thankyou!

In answer to your question re shy or selectively mute-generally a shy person will warm up and be able to speak up in a new situation after a length of time. They will just be hesitant and a little quieter but will speak freely. The general rule of thumb to go by is to give a child a term at their new environment before becoming concerned. If they are still not talking freely after this time seek further help. It may or may not resolve itself over time but if a child is young enough it can be treated quickly and easily compared to an older child who may find this process harder and slower to manage.

sorry for taking so long to come back.......have been out with DD3 to fracture clinic at one hospital, and then once she was back at school went to visit new baby at an other hospital.

she was never officially DX'd. She was referred to SALT, but the general consensus was that she just had some odd little idiocincrities (sp??) and would either grow out of it or she would improve enough to cope without intervention.

SM is not something many professionals have got to grips with yet. It is a anxiety difficuly thought to akin to social anxiety but was thought of in the past as a choice by the child not to speak in order to gain attention. Many LEA's still have it listed as elective mutism and won't provide funding or help in school as a result. There are only 3 professionals in the country who offer any training on SM to other professionals yet it's incidence is now thought to be similar to that of autism. If a child does not grow out of it and is not treated sucessfully they can develop further anxieties which can adversly affect their mental health and futures.

Wassup and pyscho thankyou for your thoughts!

Dd has been in her current classroom since september and hardly says a word to her teachers!! Though she will speak freely enough to her friends.

She will ask for the toilet, say whether she is having dinners or packed lunch and that is about it

She adores her teacher who also loves her so it seems odd that she finds it so difficult to talk.

I am wondering if her problems might be because she is first language English - her classroom is first language Welsh.............

But she chooses to remain silent/refuse to speak when asked at home/elsewhere as well - even when English is spoken and she has no reason not to know what to say

Oh dear

I find it really sad that schools cant get funding to help children with this problem!!! DD is definitely going to need help if she continues as she is now.

How interesting. We also have the bilingual dimension, although we have been told that it is irrelevant.Can you not see someone privately?

Recognition from professionals who have little knowledge of SM is the biggest problem. Some schools have been fantastic in helping a small number of children though as well. The funding issue is also a balls up by Sarah McCarthy Fry who was supposed to write to schools about a grant that they get for SLCN (speech and language communication needs, which SM is classed as)) in the Government response to the BERCOW report. NO that was too easy for her-so she told the LEA's to spend the money on all SEN as they wish instead of the SLCN it was designated for.

I think with Bilingual SM the rule is one language-one social situation. SO if the school is English speaking then if you go into school for any reason you speak English and do homework in English. However if you are relaxing with your family, speak Welsh. If that makes sense.

I don't know if you saw the story of Erin the little girl with SM. Her family went to the Welsh Assembly and met with Jane Hutt to try and raise awareness in Wales last October. They are doing what they can in Wales and I think they are in touch with a few Welsh families.

On the website downloads section you may find the leaflet "Not all SM children are silent at school useful.

Pink-It is relevant as being bilingual you always have one language which you feel more comfortable using. However -It is irrelevant if your child is fluent in both language as to the cause of the SM. Does that make sense?

I was selectively mute when I was in my first year at school, although I don't think anyone recognised the condition way back then, and in fact all they did was send me for repeated hearing tests despite my mother telling them I could hear and talk perfectly well at home!! But I did 'grow out of it' without any intervention, so be encouraged this does happen. I think its generally accepted its caused by anxiety and I think what would have helped me at the time is help with that, I remember being just totally overwhelmed by everything (and I think starting school is such a huge thing)and just shutting down and refusing to speak was a way of coping with that and maybe feeling more in control. I wonder whether lots of casual low key chats with your DD about how all of us can feel shy/scared/nervous/embarrassed/awkward/upset/sad/whatever and how thats totally normal and Ok and sharing what you do when you feel like that and talking about what she could do etc, would help?

While some children do grow out of it, (some don't) this can be a lengthy process and a child can miss out on a lot of young social years. It is risky to take that option. In a young child the treatment program is known to be effective and quick and well worth it.

A very young child won't know why the words won't come out but yes a chat to say that you understand that they find it difficult too talk sometimes and that it is ok and normal to find things difficult is great advice.

Unfortunately no it is not generally accepted that the cause is anxiety many parents have been to hell and back accused of abuse or told that their child is extremely rude, attention seeking or naughty. Sad but true

Do you think that overall a SM mute child is better off in school, hopefully learning to cope with things

Or being home educated - where the child could learn and talk as he/she wishes. Then socialise in all the various ways HEd children do

My dd is happyish to talk in other contexts - when with our adult friends for example, but not at school

We have been considering HE for ages because ds is very fed up and unhappy at school, so I am suddenly wondering if dd might prefer that option also (She does like school though!)

Thankyou for all of your thoughts

I think a child with SM or for that matter a child who is 'just shy', wants to be able to talk and so should be supported/shown/helped to do so. Taking the child out of school because of the difficulty really isn't helping them address the issue, its just escaping temporarily something which could be a problem in other situations/later in life.
I think if there is a treatment program or support that you can get in school that must be worth a try. I also think there is no substitute for talking to your child about these issues, I don't mean 'a chat', I mean talking over and again and teaching your child about emotions and what we do with them.