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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Concerns after parents evening - also private vs. state

67 replies

treepose · 08/03/2009 08:04

My daughter is in year 3 in the local state primary. She is in a class of 30. We had a 5 minute slot to talk to the teacher on parent's evening. The teacher showed us two papers, one with test results of a maths test, in which dd had done well, and the other with an English composition. Remarks for the English composition were "she was away when we worked on this so she can write at a higher standard than this". Other than that the teacher said our daughter worked hard (150% !!). I asked whether there were any areas she could improve in and any suggestions to help, the teacher said "no, just keep doing what you are doing".

Now, while there is nothing as such wrong with this, I am decidedly underwhelmed. Maybe it was just being shown the results of the tests with no mention of strengths and potential except "works hard"? Am I being unreasonable and slipping into PFB - ness? Do let me know if I am!

I've also heard from someone who works in the school that the class dd is in, is considered to be a "hard" class, and academically they are not achieving what they should be. This is because of misbehaviour during class by many of the kids. My dd is happy there though she mentions the misbehaviour. I feel that she deserves something better than being in a class where the kids don't give a damn? Am wondering whether we should make a financial sacrifice which I am not sure we can afford and send her to private school? Another factor is that the school she is in now does not prepare for 11+ and feeds into local secondary which was failing until a year ago.

Any thoughts appreciated. I'm aware that I can be a bit over-neurotic sometimes but I can't help wondering whether I'm doing best by dd.

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seeker · 08/03/2009 08:18

Ok - here's what I think - randomly and in no particular order.

I think you should ask at what National Curriculum level she's working at the moment - if the teacher can't tell you she should be able to. What did she get for her year 2 SATS?

State schools are actually not allowed to prepare children for the 11+, so if you are in an 11+ area you'll have to arrange any preparation yourself anyway. Do you know how many children from your dd's school went to grammar school last year?

And remember that a school can turn round very quickly - you say the secondary was failing - it's got another 3 years before your dd might go there.

thirtypence · 08/03/2009 08:26

Last year I taught two "hard" classes at a private primary. This year I teach the same year level and both classes are lovely. So it may be something that could coincidentally be cured by going private - but not necessarily.

Your dd is doing well, and you got 5 minutes. Hopefully that means that the children causing the problems had more time to discuss progress/attitude.

If your dd is happy and she is working at a suitable level, then your underwhelmedness is not maybe the greatest reason for spending $1000s. A tutor to prepare for 11+ may be a better investment.

hercules1 · 08/03/2009 08:43

I would be thinking ahead to secondary and how you are going to ensure she gets the 11+. Personally I would keep her where she is but spend money on kumon or something similar. WHen she is a little older I'd then get her tuition.

Hassled · 08/03/2009 08:53

I think you might be panicking a bit unduly. Your DD is happy and is doing well - if you need more evidence of this then ask the teacher to let you know where she should be in terms of SATs levels and where she actually is - pupils are constantly being monitored and assessed so this should be relatively easy for her to produce.

Throughout her school life she is always going to come across kids who misbehave somtimes. It doesn't mean those kids don't give a damn. And a good teacher will cope with a bit of bad behaviour. Don't make it bigger than it needs to be without more hard facts and a good understanding of the level of disruption caused.

And as seeker said, the Secondary may well be very different in 3 years' time - and will probably be good, because a failing school has a lot of resource and effort pumped into it by the LA to turn it round.

Original poster

treepose · 08/03/2009 08:53

Thanks for the common sense answers, it's why I posted on here! Yes, the teacher did spend a lot more time on some kids.

I did not ask and wasn't told what level she is working on at the moment. Year 2 SATS she was at level 3a for Maths and English and level 3 (no sublevel) for Science.

OP posts:

seeker · 08/03/2009 08:53

But don't spend money on Kumon or anything if your dd is where she should be or ahead - that's why I asked about the National Curriculum she's working at.

seeker · 08/03/2009 09:00

Cross posted.

So if she was at level 3 in year 2, she's well on track. Next time you get the opportunity, as where she is now, but I wouldn't worry. Level 3 at year 2 is very good, and a strong indicator of level 5s in year 6.

I know levels aren't everything, but if she's happy and engaged and working hard as well, it all adds up to a very positive picture!

Original poster

treepose · 08/03/2009 09:01

She is doing things like prisms and adding in columns in Maths now, not sure what the topic in English is, she has weekly spelling homework where she has to write sentences with words she is given. That's as much as I know from the work she brings home and what she says Guess I need to look up the curriculum to see where this is at.

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Original poster

treepose · 08/03/2009 09:02

Thank you seeker, am looking a things more positively now

OP posts:

scienceteacher · 08/03/2009 09:12

The problem with focussing on levels and targets is that once a child has achieved the school target, they will get little help or encouragement to move on.

There should be a lot more to school than NC core subjects and SATS.

We moved our Year 5 daughter into an independent school after the first term. When we found out at parents' evening that she was already level 5 for everything and pleasant/hardworking etc, the penny dropped that this would be the same for the next year and a half. DD is now able to really blossom now as she is doing so many more subjects (properly).

Original poster

treepose · 08/03/2009 09:35

Scienceteacher how did your daughter feel about her new school, and did she find the work much harder than she was used to? What I want to avoid is putting her into an environment where too much is expected of her.

OP posts:

verygreenlawn · 08/03/2009 09:37

Just be aware as well that not all private schools would prepare her for the 11+ - ours doesn't! Their whole ethos is to move your (in our case) sons on through common entrance at 13+ to a private senior school so if you want 11+ it's tutor time. I think if money is an issue for you, I'd spend the money when the time is right on a tutor (if she needed one) rather than a private school now.

verygreenlawn · 08/03/2009 09:38

BTW "their whole ethos" refers to our particular school not private schools in general - I'm sure others are more than happy to prepare for 11+.

scienceteacher · 08/03/2009 09:45

treepose,

My DD is still in the top few pupils in her class, but she is being moved on rather than having met the standard and left to repeat the same work over and over.

The main thing she experiences now is the variety of classes she has where she is definitely not top of the class. She is being gently brought up to speed and is really loving having new challenges.

She is expected to do her best in everything and the teacher holds her to task. DD is loving it.

Before, she used to spend hours reading her Brownie badge book asking if I could teach her how to do the specific things she needed to get the badge. Now this hunger to learn new things is satisfied at school.

seeker · 08/03/2009 10:01

Not all state schools are like the one scienceteacher describes. My ds was level 3 in year 2, and is now in year 3 and doing lots of 'extension" work. There is no way he is being left to repeat work and drift- I would be in there like a shot if he was!

scienceteacher · 08/03/2009 10:05

But what is the nature of that extension work, Seeker?

Children are kept busy, no doubt, but what they are actually doing is that is important.

foxinsocks · 08/03/2009 10:12

yes I agree with seeker. You can't tar all state schools with the same brush scienceteacher. Ds has been brought on loads by his school.

scienceteacher · 08/03/2009 10:16

I'm only speaking from personal experience - YMMV.

seeker · 08/03/2009 10:16

He, and another couple of children, are doing more complex maths, and working at a higher level in literacy. More is expected of them in topic work, although they work with the rest of the class. He is also starting French, and is given "tasks" to complete on his own which follow his interests.

foxinsocks · 08/03/2009 10:17

I think it's very school dependent tbh (whether state or private)

scienceteacher · 08/03/2009 10:18

Hmm - more literacy and numeracy (yawn)

And tasks to complete on his own.

French is extension work - you mean they don't all do it from Reception onwards?

Well, if you are happy with it, then that is what's important.

seeker · 08/03/2009 10:19

It's funny that no-one judges private schools based on their experience of one. My friend's dd spent two years having a lovely time and learning nothing at a local private school - they got a serious shock at 11+ time. But I realize that it would be very unfair to judge a whole sector on this experience.

seeker · 08/03/2009 10:23

I'm not going to fight with you, scienceteacher. You are, as always, determined to see not good in state education. I'm sure your children are having a lovely time learning ancient Greek and philosophy.

But I would have thought more challenging maths and English were essential for a brighter than average child in whatever school. And tasks to complete on your own, either at home or when the class is engaged in something you have already done are excellent for encouraging independent study, learning research techniques and broadening knowledge.

foxinsocks · 08/03/2009 10:24

lol seeker

friend of ours sent her lovely lovely boy to a (quite well renowned) private school near us.

He sobbed for his first few days, then the teachers spoke to the parents and said he was 'upsetting' the rest of the class (so no attempt to actually help him there)...they left it another few weeks and then said he was not crying but still not joining in and they told the parents he needed a one on one helper that they would need to pay for and had they ever thought about autism?

scienceteacher · 08/03/2009 10:25

Wherever people are involved there will be variation, and there will always be a convenient anecdote to pull out of the hat at a convenient time. But proper research tends to come out in favour of independent schools (apart from finance, of course) - even from bodies such as the Sutton Trust.

I was simply telling my own story to the OP after a very similar parents' evening. That is what Mumsnet is for, surely?

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