Concerns after parents evening - also private vs. state

[treepose]

My daughter is in year 3 in the local state primary. She is in a class of 30. We had a 5 minute slot to talk to the teacher on parent's evening. The teacher showed us two papers, one with test results of a maths test, in which dd had done well, and the other with an English composition. Remarks for the English composition were "she was away when we worked on this so she can write at a higher standard than this". Other than that the teacher said our daughter worked hard (150% !!). I asked whether there were any areas she could improve in and any suggestions to help, the teacher said "no, just keep doing what you are doing".

Now, while there is nothing as such wrong with this, I am decidedly underwhelmed. Maybe it was just being shown the results of the tests with no mention of strengths and potential except "works hard"? Am I being unreasonable and slipping into PFB - ness? Do let me know if I am!

I've also heard from someone who works in the school that the class dd is in, is considered to be a "hard" class, and academically they are not achieving what they should be. This is because of misbehaviour during class by many of the kids. My dd is happy there though she mentions the misbehaviour. I feel that she deserves something better than being in a class where the kids don't give a damn? Am wondering whether we should make a financial sacrifice which I am not sure we can afford and send her to private school? Another factor is that the school she is in now does not prepare for 11+ and feeds into local secondary which was failing until a year ago.

Any thoughts appreciated. I'm aware that I can be a bit over-neurotic sometimes but I can't help wondering whether I'm doing best by dd.

The same back at you, Seeker.

But you are actually wrong about my views. I am fairly rational about my views of state schools within my experience (and the ones that my children could physically get to). I don't have a naive determination.

but the large large majority of children in this country are in state schools though science teacher so it must be doing something right?

(and are turning out ok and getting into university etc. etc.)

or getting jobs or whatever

Well, that's a topic with a lot of mileage in it, fox.

Is secondary education doing well?

Are the univeristy courses worthwhile?

Do some students drop out?

I don't think it is right to derail this thread. How the country as a whole gets on is not particularly helpful to the OP whose scenario is very personal to her.

It is however, useful to see the arguments for and against, especially from people who have been through the same experience. So I don't mind a bit of derailing. They're points to be kept in mind when viewing potential secondary schools, state or private.

Oh scienceteacher - I'm sorry, but I can't stop myself.

Of course statistically children who go to private schools do better than children who go to state schools. That's because the 7% of children in private schools represent disproportionately, by definition, children from richer, more advantaged families. The biggest single factor determining how well a child does at school is poverty or non-poverty.

The Sutton Trust research bears this out.

And there are very few genuinely poor children at private schools.

And as for you not judging state schools, I can't help remembering that you suggested that my dd only got her games shirt nicked because she was at a state school!

Treepose - My ds2 sounds similar to your dd. He went to a first school in the village which finishes at end of yr3. He got level 3s in yr 2 sats and I knew he was drifting in yr3. He was in a small class, but had a few children with issues so teachers were not good at distributing their time equally. They told me at end of year meeting that they had slightly neglected ds2 as he was well ahead.

However now in yr 4 at school in town. After a couple of weeks there we had a parents evening and teacher had already started him on extension work. He is being challenged and happy. The year of drifting hasn't set him back much!

Dh teaches at various private schools - bloody marvellous facilities and results etc.. but we simply couldn't afford to go down that route with 4 children.

I have a friend who is moving her child out of private to go to village first school as she is fed up with the c**p that can go with some private schools, so it's swings and roundabouts.

Is your dd bored? There are always going to be children in a class who don't give a damn. If she's happy I'd leave her where she is and aim for grammar school pace.

{whispers} Added value

Schilke she never mentions being bored at school, they have activities like dance and singing which she loves and even girl's football at lunchtime! That's why I am reluctant to push her too much if she is happy where she is.

OTOH I do mind if a teacher just focuses on the troublemakers, though sometimes I can see that it's the only thing that can be done. Sounds a lot like "she's reached targets so my work with her is done" to me. :P Although, as you said, next year might very well be different.

Argh, sometimes I wish I couldn't see other people's points of view so well!

I agree with all the Pro-State replies on here.

Also, you mentioned that it would be a financial sacrifice and you're not sure if you can afford it; if so, then I would say definitely don't move your DD to private school now. As schilke says, aim for a grammar school place instead or, as Seeker says, hope the failing secondary turns around in the next few years, it can and does happen.

I also think, like someone else said on here, that she might find yr 4 (and junior school) a different prospect. My dd didn't enjoy yr 3 but has really blossomed in yr 4. I think it offers a lot more structured learning and detailed learning of topics (I have no idea if this is true, but that's what it seems like!).

I don't know if they stream in yr 4/juniors (only for maths/literacy)? Our school does and I think that's made a difference to dd. Is it perhaps worth asking the school if this might happen?

Private or not .... at the end of the day how the class behaves is largely down to the teacher and the schools policy on behaviour. I have had 2 boys go through both state and private education and you will come across kids who don't 'give a damn' in both places. Don't assume because you are paying for it, all the kids are well behaved. However, you have a much higher chance of having like-minded parents who care about their kids education and support them more at home. This is not saying state parents do not (I am one of them), but there are many parents in the state system who couldn't care less - there is also a small minority in private system - more money than sense ifswim. These are my experiences, not a general opinion of any of you guys (get out clause You pay your money and take your chance.

Treepose - to go back to your original post...five minutes with a teacher is not very long. Sounds to me that the teacher doesn't really know your child that well, but as long as she is getting on fine with her work, she is not worried about her. Sometimes a child's individuality is lost somewhat in a class of 30, which doesn't help when we want to hear more personal details about them than 'keep going'.
If you are still concerned, I would go and have another chat with the teacher, and also go and have a look at the local private school to see if you think your dd would be any better off there. Chances are, she wouldn't. But at least you would stop wondering for the time being!

Treepose - I could have written your OP about my Yr3 DD. Only difference is she didn't do as well on her SATS and got 1c for writing and 2a for maths and reading.

We're having the same dilema about whether or not to try and somehow scrape the money togetehr for private school. Infact DD has a voice trial coming up for the cathedral choir as this will mean reduced fees at the private school if she's successful.

I doubt DD will pass the 11+ and the local comp isn't very good. 43% of kids get 5 or more GCSEs. Doesn't sound good to me.

Surely the key thing is your daughter and how she'd feel being moved from a school where she's so obviously happy and thriving. You've no guarantee if you move her she'll like it, so why take the risk? If I was her I'd be really hacked off if my parents moved me. Could stir up all sorts of problems.

We are in similar postion with our DD in year 3. We are fed up with the levels TBH. I know that she and another boy get extra work sometimes at school but it is not some thing very challenging. I know that my DD could do much better if she is in a better environment and some encouragement .We have decided to move her to an independent school from next sept and hoping that she will get some scholarship in the near future. No grammar school around here.

Jajas - thats how I understand it, yes.

Jajas - they don't really relate to the school year. An average year 3 child is expected to get a 2b and an average year 6 child a 4b. That's progress of 2 sub levels a year. Most schools keep a record of their children's progress with a series of informal assessments, so a teacher should know where on the scale of level 1 to level 5 any child is at any given moment.

Levels at KS1
W: 'Working towards' level 1 - very weak
Level 1: Below average
Level 2c: Just about level 2
Level 2b: A solid level 2
Level 2a: Good skills
Level 3: Excellent - likely to reach level 5 at KS2
Level 4: Amazingly able (and extremely rare)
Tests at Key Stage 2 - Year 6

Scienceteacher - I'm knackered today after a busy weekend during which dd1 was participating in our local drama festival - with school. At 7.30am on Friday dh was taking dd2 to a fair trade event at the supermarket organised by school. On Thursday they were both doing drama after school - at school and dd1 was doing animation as well. Earlier in the week they both had school trips. On Monday dd2 was attending her after school singing class - at school.

Damn those state schools eh?