School Marking policy in Year 1

[GrowlingTiger]

OK, name-changed as I've made myself unpopular at school by raising this, but would appreciate a "professional" view on it if any knowledgable teachers pass by.

Ds is a summer born Year 1 child, so 5 and a half. His pencil control is OK but not great. He has a weekly test in spellings and number bonds/timestables. Am not entirely enthusiastic about these (esp when in the first term he was learning to spell words that he could not yet read!) but accept them as part of the overall package.

His report at the end of last term said "Ds must learn the number bonds and multiplication tables for the weekly tests as his results have been a little disappointing". I was slightly narked as this wasn't raised at the parents evening and I'd personally been pleased with his progress whilst being aware that he isn't the most able boy in the class by some way. Report also commented that he lacks confidence is addition and subtraction.

Roll on this term and now the marking policy of the school has tightened up so that for numeracy, if the child reverses a digit (ie mirror reflection of a single digit, not 16 rather than 61), then the answer is marked as wrong. Ditto spelling, so if a letter eg "g" is reversed despite being in the right place in the word, then the spelling is marked as incorrect. Ds has got all items tested correct for spelling and computation but because of these reversals is getting lower marks (eg 6/10).

I guess I am slightly frustrated that if the object of the exercise is to say learn the 3 times table then ds knows his 3 times table forwards, backwards and at random. Yet the marks indicate otherwise and I suspect his report will too.

When my older child was going through this the approach seemed more laid back - with the idea that they would grow out of the reversals. But it is stricter for my younger child. How does this match up against other schools (ds is at a private school in case that makes a difference). I've been told that the change in policy is in effort to raise standards. But does this really work - ds thought that he had worked well but is getting lower marks than ever. I am concerned that this will put him off.

Here is the current Key stage 2 maths task for children working below the level of the key stage 2 tests - level 2:

Page 3: "Some pupils may reverse digits.
Do not penalise this. However, if
children reverse the order of a
two-digit number, eg write 15
instead of 51, this may indicate
a deeper lack of understanding
about place value rather than a
reading or writing problem."

here

This is pretty much the exact wording of Key Stage 1 document, which I will type out after half term.

Have just realised - have sat here all this time, and I have Testbase installed on my laptop. Melissa and other teachers will recognise this as software which collates all the Key Stage 1 tests and the mark schemes. I can just cut and paste the guidance for an award of level 2 directly:

"Possible issues when marking:

The child reverses a digit when recording

A reversed digit is acceptable if it is clearly recognisable as the digit intended; for example, when recording a reversed 2 must clearly show the characteristics of a 2 rather than a 5"

Shan't hold my breath for an gracious - or otherwise - apology.....just please ensure you don't now penalise your year 2 children unfairly, Melissa.

WOW...someone is angry, and has WAY too much time on their hands...its interesting that noone seems to care about what your saying except for you feenie....god help me, i would hate to have to work alongside someone like yourself who is so full of themselves and is NEVER wrong. I actually sat here and went back and read the posts of what both you and I have written, and see where your attempted intimidation comes from. You come on to posts all high and mighty that you are always right, and everyone else is always wrong, and then you totally misinterpret what has been said to you (eg; my "citing ros wilson as law to you")
oh...look at this, miss perfection actually made a mistake "an gracious"

"You are barking, Melissa. There you go, I have finally been rude to you"

first of all, what the hell does that mean? I am assuming it is supposed to be an insult?? Secondly, you have "finally been rude" to me? Go back and read your posts, you have been rude from the start, but then in your mind, I only have been rude to you...and I have been rude to you, you're right, but am I going to apologise for it, there is no need to, because it was provoked by yourself, and I am merely trying to defend myself from your tiger claws. At least I am able to admit that. You, on the other hand are gracious and cordial...right?
feenie, you are the rudest person I have ever come across. Sad really, because children in a classroom do not deserve such a thing.
but post away...
the last word on this subject is yours, I won't be back to read it, I have better things to do.

"Sad really, because children in a classroom do not deserve such a thing."

What children do not deserve, Melissa, is for a teacher to consider it 'imperative' that they mark them down completely erroneously. Since you are now teaching Year 2, this was an absolutely fundamental point that you needed to know. I'm now grateful your children won't be shortchanged in this aspect at least.

I haven't insulted you personally until my last post. 'Barking' btw means bonkers, and I truly think you are. I could copy and paste reams of personal insults from you on this thread, but I can't be bothered; other people, at least, can read. Until my last post, I just tried to debate something which even you said was 'imperative'. You might not like the way I've told you, but I am concerned that this is the third such issue you have blithely posted wild misconceptions on - I actually consider some of them quite dangerous, profesionally speaking.
So why would you not want to know that you can't mark your children down for number reversal? It's extremely common in Y2 - perhaps the parents of your children would prefer you to know this?

"feenie, you are the rudest person I have ever come across. Sad really, because children in a classroom do not deserve such a thing."

Childish, and below the belt. You have no idea how I come across to children in the classroom, Melissa. From your lashing out, I could infer lots of things about your teaching in a similar fashion, but choose not to as I consider such insults as beneath contempt. Stick to the professional point, woman!

I changed my mind, I decided to prove my point..I have just read numerous posts by you within other threads, where you have been rude, judgemental and demeaning to others.
"A simple search on my good name shows I have never intimidated anyone"

Well, I took your challenge, and did it, and was amazed by what you have written to others, not to mention the swearing...wow!

I am sure newforold and hughjarssss would agree! Along with others who you judge because they do not see your point of view, or they do not agree with you.

BTW...not all schools use testbase to analyse their results...you really should check your sources feenie, we would not want you to go misinforming parents now would we lol

you know what the problem here is, feenie, you talk down to people, like they are 2 year olds and you are the adult who knows all. It is really demeaning to others, you really should try to stop that.
I could cite MANY examples from you, not only twds me, but twds others, since I have now read your other posts to ppl, but will settle for now with this one "You might not like the way I've told you, but I am concerned that this is the third such issue you have blithely posted wild misconceptions on - I actually consider some of them quite dangerous, profesionally speaking"

I would love to know what your version of these other two issues are?

btw...prefessionally has TWO S's...I don't know Feenie, your perfection is really not doing so well lately.

lol...prefessionally, PROFESSIONALLY...at least I am not a perfectionist!

Melissa will you just give it a rest, your starting to sound like a five year old.
I read the primary threads with interest. (I have a 6 year old daughter and im also a teacher) So I do like to check the threads out.
I have made the same observations as feenie, theres something not quite right with your posts, but I cant put my finger on what it actually is.
Then I had a lightbulb moment. You sound like a very keen NQT, who believes they have all the answers but doesnt quite yet have the years of experience to go with it.

Testbase is just a programme which pulls together every KS1 test used every year by every state school. The information I provided comes from every single mark scheme I have ever seen in Y2 - which you most certainly will have in school and will use year on year. .

Your misinformation to Mumsnetters to date:

r.e. KS1 tests

"They are done with the children in small groups outside the classroom with the class teacher."
No, they are not.

"The class teacher then marks the tests and if they feel that the marks do not reflect the true ability of the child, they can then change them to be more reflective"
This shows a complete misunderstanding of KS1 assessment as a whole.

"Also, the final result is reported to the LEA, the governors and the parents"
No, it is not. The final teacher assesment, built up from many factors over the year, is the only figure reported.

"Yr 2 teachers have to go through a lot of hurdles to change the sats marks, as they have to prove to the head, quite often a governor in charge of the subject and very often a moderator from the LEA as to why the mark should be changed."
Again, shows a huge misunderstanding of the entire process. The test mark is a tiny part of the teacher assessment - you cannot change the test result, but your judgement would be made up of many other factors.
I actually mentioned your comments to an LEA advisor a few week ago, as an example of how there are still Y2 teachers who do not have a grasp of KS1 assessment, and she was horrified. I was reassured at that time that you were teaching Reception, although assessment in Y2 is now very similar to Foundation assessment.

"the final result, that being the result whether it has come from the SATS paper or has been changed from teacher assessment is irrelevant, they are only interested in the final result and unless you are being moderated or there are some serious concerns, I highly doubt your (sic) going to get a phone call to ask how many are from the papers and how many from the over year assessment"
Misinformation at best here, actual malpractice at worst.

r.e.spelling
"I too have taught year one and thnk spelling tests are a bit ridiculous. But the law says they must be done!"
No, it doesn't.

r.e.number reversals
"hulababy, this is because in level two (the average for a Y2 child to be acheiving by years end is a 2B) they get marked down for letter and number reversals, so it is imperative to be more strict."
No, they do not.

"would I be doing my job correctly if I marked a letter or number reversal correct?"
In the case of number reversals, yes you would, but here of course you meant you would not.

The implications of these misconceptions are potentially serious. There may have been many parents here worrying that their child may not achieve level 2 because they reverse numbers, for example. More seriously, you are involved in KS1 assessment, and have a duty to your children to be both up to date and accurate. I find your assertions to the contrary completely irresponsible, tbh.

here you go again, picking out random things, like you always have done in the past. I notice you do not quote the clarification that came lower in the threads, where I established what I meant when I wrote what I did.
You can harp on and on till your blue in the face, but IMO, and ironically in a lot of others, because I too have spoken to others about what you have said, and they were , I will not mark correctly a childs letter or number reversal because it perpetuates a habit, and no I would NOT be doing my job correctly if I did, because my job is to teach the children how to count, write their numbers and letters, write their sentences correctly, add, subtract etc etc..and by not telling a child that they have done a letter or number the wrong way round, then you are committing a serious malpractice twds that child.

and cascade...how misinformed you are. I am merely trying to defend myself, whatever that makes me sound like to you, well then thats your opnion.

Your clarification, where it occurs, either comes too late for parents who accepted your first assertions, or digs you deeper into a hole of misunderstanding (most notably in the KS1 test threads).

"because I too have spoken to others about what you have said, and they were "
Who cares? I haven't said anything which is not factually correct, only sought to correct your misconceptions so that parents and children don't suffer as a direct result.

"by not telling a child that they have done a letter or number the wrong way round, then you are committing a serious malpractice twds that child."
Agreed. But who said you wouldn't tell the child? Of course you would tell them.

I would perhaps have a modicum of respect for you, Melissa, if you had said "Well, I'm still going to check with my numeracy co-ordinator/Head/LEA advisor." That would perhaps show a little integrity on your part, that you would at least care enough about your children and how you assess them to bother to check.

So you will continue to mark down children who reverse numbers, even though I have shown you where to find the vital evidence to the contrary and you know it is factually wrong - wow. I find this comtemptible - but I cannot do anything about it. I can only hope that some of your parents are Mumsnetters and can call you on it. Poor kids

contemptible

Feenie and melissa...its so sad to see you getting so upset with each other on this thread.

I am not a teacher so have no idea what the correct marking system should be for letters the wrong way round. As a parent I would hope that my children would be writing their numbers and letters correctly by year 2, unless they were dyslexic.

I imagine there would be definite guidelines for the state system. Assuming these are as Feenie says, the private schools do not necessarily follow them.
So children may be marked down earlier than yr 2 for numbers/letters the wrong way round in the independent sector. The private school teachers marking the children down earlier are only wrong if it goes against the advice of their Head Teacher.

Melissa is not a private school teacher, happywomble, and is not allowed to mark her children down. for number reversal.

Where we both agree, however, is that children must be taught and encouraged not to form their numbers incorrectly.

I have been doing some cover as a TA in a Year 2 class. If I marked all work wrong for number and letter reversals there would be some children who would truly give up as they would NEVER get it right .
Surely you can use some common sense within the guidelines? I gave a child who struggles with his letter formation a mark for a spelling word with a letter reversed. I did not give a mark to a more able child who made a similar mistake. The rest of her work was perfect. The rest of the boys work was not.
This was approved by the Class teacher, and I should stress was a spelling test and therefore the scores didn't count towards anything.
I also marked numeracy work for the weaker group that I was working with. No one lost a mark for number reversal. If they had there would have been a lot of crosses on their page.

"Melissa is not a private school teacher" it is amazing how much feenie knows ...feenie, how do you know? It would be really great if you could stick to speaking for yourself, and not for others

VanillaPumpkin, I agree with you entirely in the common sense aspect.
I think one of the key issues here, is that not all schools do things the same, and they interpret the guidelines differently. Having taught in four schools in England, at the infant level, each one did things very differently in terms of policies and marking etc...
I beleive it is important to know your pupils, and use common sense as you mentioned. You are obviously not going to cross out all their work if they are a struggler, because you are right, it would be full of crosses otherwise! But if it is a higher acheiving child, then I (and other colleagues I work with, with the approval of my Head) see no issue with correcting letter or number reversals. It is the only way they are going to learn. Letting them continue to do their letters and numbers reversed is not acceptable IMO

I agree. But a higher achieving child in Y2 would be accessing level 3 work anyway -it was level 2 that you said children would be marked down on.

You said you had been involved in Y2 tests for the last four years - private schools do not usually participate. Just going on what you posted, Melissa.

In case it helps, as the OP, the child who has been in question is a lower achieving Year 1 child, not Year 2 at all (although the school doesn't do any NC assessment that I am aware of, so no idea whether he is level 1, 2 or 3).

But I'm happy that Jim Hudson OBE says that the idea of marking a calculation perfomed by a struggling summerborn year 1 child as being wrong just because of a letter reversal. He indicated that he would expect the teacher to corrrect the reversal but to give full credit for the computation, and to do otherwise could be extremely demoralising for the child and against the "Every Child Matters" ethos.

Sensible man! I totally agree

Oops

Meant
But I'm happy that Jim Hudson OBE says that the idea of marking a calculation perfomed by a struggling summerborn year 1 child as being wrong just because of a letter reversal was ridiculous.

Jim Hudson is my new best friend.

GT..I totally agree with you. I did that with my numeracy assessments today when marking them from this week, one mark for the computation and a seperate one for the answer.

Er, how does that work? 2 marks per question? Isn't that confusing at 5?

Jim Hudson's take was that ds's work would have been marked as correct (so 10/10), but the 2 numbers he reversed would be written the correct way by the teacher).