School Marking policy in Year 1

[GrowlingTiger]

OK, name-changed as I've made myself unpopular at school by raising this, but would appreciate a "professional" view on it if any knowledgable teachers pass by.

Ds is a summer born Year 1 child, so 5 and a half. His pencil control is OK but not great. He has a weekly test in spellings and number bonds/timestables. Am not entirely enthusiastic about these (esp when in the first term he was learning to spell words that he could not yet read!) but accept them as part of the overall package.

His report at the end of last term said "Ds must learn the number bonds and multiplication tables for the weekly tests as his results have been a little disappointing". I was slightly narked as this wasn't raised at the parents evening and I'd personally been pleased with his progress whilst being aware that he isn't the most able boy in the class by some way. Report also commented that he lacks confidence is addition and subtraction.

Roll on this term and now the marking policy of the school has tightened up so that for numeracy, if the child reverses a digit (ie mirror reflection of a single digit, not 16 rather than 61), then the answer is marked as wrong. Ditto spelling, so if a letter eg "g" is reversed despite being in the right place in the word, then the spelling is marked as incorrect. Ds has got all items tested correct for spelling and computation but because of these reversals is getting lower marks (eg 6/10).

I guess I am slightly frustrated that if the object of the exercise is to say learn the 3 times table then ds knows his 3 times table forwards, backwards and at random. Yet the marks indicate otherwise and I suspect his report will too.

When my older child was going through this the approach seemed more laid back - with the idea that they would grow out of the reversals. But it is stricter for my younger child. How does this match up against other schools (ds is at a private school in case that makes a difference). I've been told that the change in policy is in effort to raise standards. But does this really work - ds thought that he had worked well but is getting lower marks than ever. I am concerned that this will put him off.

Hulababy, I have taught in both Norway and Denmark, and some children go to "kindergarten" before the age of 6, which is like childcareor like nursery, but it is not a requirement to go to school before 6, but most children have learnt to read before they come in at 6, but they all know how to read before they are 7,unless there is a valid reason for them not to (learning challenges etc...)

I think most countries do not start formal teaching until 6/7 - Britain is unusual in starting so early!

Here is some research and tables of school starting age worldwide.

It is the times tables bit that surprises me. Do many schools do these in year 1?
3 x 9 sounds advanced for a 5yr old doesn't it?

My DS seemed to stop reversing numbers and letters by the end of yr 1. I would have thought it would be ok to remind the child of the correct way to write the numbers/letters in yr 1 but not mark them down until yr2.

It sounds as if the school is pushing ops ds too much..left to his own devices he would probably be writing the numbers and letters correctly by yr 2 (unless he is dyslexic).

Also, I thought that spelling tests had been shown to have no real benefit in education - sure there was some research on this. So, why is the marking f them right or wrong even necessary at all.

melissa - I stand corrected on the countires think. Only going on what I had read on other forms of schools elsewhere and my DH's swedish cousin's experience.

happywomble - times tables are not part of the NC for Y1 numeracy. They learn to count in 10s forwards and backwards but no futher requirement IIRR. In Y2 they do 2s, 5s, and 10s. rest form part of KS2 curriculum.

As pointed on on a recent thread on this topic - no idea why some schools insist on doing this so early. It sis nothing more than rote learning, with children learning them facts as they would song lyrics. In KS1 they should beconcentrating on understanding numbers in relation to one another and why thinsg add up to a certain number, etc.

Hulababy, I agree with not marking every little thing, I usually choose about 5 things per piece of work, depending on length of work, and mark those things (eg spelling corrections, reversals, grammar etc..)
As a TA, how come you are doing marking and assessing?

Hulababy, actually the Y1 curriculum does require the children to count by 2,5 and 10 both forward and backward as evidenced on the primary framework standards website found here www.standards.dfes.gov.uk/primaryframework/mathematics/planning/Year1/relationships
They do the same numbers in Y2, but then it is referred to as timestables and they are also taught the related division facts, so the only difference between Y1 and Y2 in this regard is in Y1 they count by 2,5 and 10 and in Y2 they do the timestables and the division

aintnomountainhighenough...too true. The difficulty with numeracy as a whole is it is like building a tower, everything builds on the previous concept, and it is so easy for children to fall behind in it because if they have not grasped concept two, it is going to be very difficult for them grasp concept 3. This is where I had problems as a child, I really struggled with maths and it all went so quickly that I found I fell behind without even realising it. It is a bit silly to teach timestables when the child(ren) does not have a solid understanding of the foundation principles.
This goes back to the way maths is taught in this country. It is the most backward system I have ever come across in the 5 countries I have taught in throughout my career. In England, you teach three or four topics in a week, you jump from money to place value, to adding and subtraction, all within a weeks lesson. No wonder the kids are confused and do not grasp the basic principles, they do not know if they are coming or going half the time! In other countries, they spend 4-5 weeks on one concept to really solidify what the logistics of it are all about, and it is all taught cross curriculur so children can see how it all interrelates as opposed to just having numeracy for an hour, and then having literacy for an hour, with no relationship between them. But then thats a whole other issue, and one of my biggest pet peeves of the British education system as a whole!

melissa - I stand corrected.. Only just started in Y1 so curriculum still new to me. Counting in 2s and 5s not on the list of things to do in Numeracy on the list I was given. Maybe my list will be updated for the next summer term.

This is what I was given:

By end of Y1 most child should be able to

Count at least 20 everyday objects.
Count forwards and backwards in ones, starting from a small number.
Count forwards and backwards in tens (zero, ten, twenty, thirty?)
Read and write numbers to at least 20.
Put the numbers 0 to 20 in order.
Use the words first, second, third...
Given a number from 10 to 20, say the number that is 1 more, 1 less, 10 more, 10 less.
Use the words add, sum, total, take away, subtract, difference between? in practical situations.
Know by heart all pairs of numbers that make 10,
e.g. 3 + 7, 8 + 2.
Add and subtract two numbers under 10.
Compare two objects or containers, and say which is longer or shorter, or heavier or lighter, or which holds more.
Name and describe simple flat and solid shapes, e.g. It's got 3 corners.

melissa - I do it for my small group of children (I do literacy with them primarily) and then work with the class teacher to finalise the assessments. I also do simple assessments when I take the clas on my own - do this once a week for ICT for example. And I did my classes's literacy assessments at the start of this half term, going through the assessment individually with each child and then doing the preliminary assessment checks for whether they were in terms of the phases, prior to the teacher doing the finalised assessment..

They've done this at our school since reception. Seems so harsh but I can understand it.

melissa75 r.e."hulababy, this is because in level two (the average for a Y2 child to be acheiving by years end is a 2B) they get marked down for letter and number reversals, so it is imperative to be more strict. "

Once again, melissa, I am afraid you are wrong! Number reversals are NOT penalised in Y2 as long as they are written in correct place value columns - the op made it clear she was not referring to this. The Y2 boy you mention as an extreme example would have to be penalised for reversing 16 and 61, but writing 3 x 9 = 27, with the 7 reversed, is fine in Y2.

To the op - I think the system of marking is ridiculously harsh, and can only serve to dampen the enthusiasm of a young writer/mathematician, at a time when the point is to fire them up about anything to do with Maths/writing. Your poor ds.

Why are you teaching Y2 now, Melissa - you were in Reception at Christmas?

Hulababy, oh right, I was going to say, you definately do not get paid enough as a TA to be doing marking and assessments! I was going to say, demand a pay raise!! My TA does the same with my kids, she does ELS and Threp etc..
With the maths, perhaps thats the block they are working on at the moment, there are 5 blocks in the framework, each with three units in it, so each block has its own specific areas of concepts to be learnt. Hope they give the rest of them! Otherwise you can access them on the link I posted above which takes you to the standards website directly to the Y1 framework for block E

Oh melissa - I know for definite I am doing over and above what most TAs do, and am veyry much underpaid for it. I also coordinate and delivery a support group in a morning for abou 20 children, with some non teaching/qualified staff (i.e. students) working along side me helping to improve an interest in reading, etc.

However I enjoy it all and it keeps me busy during the day, without any f the stresses of real teaching and definitely not the workload I used to have. So, for now I take the lower pay in favour of time out at home.

I have been fairly happy with the school as far as my older child is concerned. For my younger one, he is in a difficult class, and I think that I am worried about whether this school is a suitable fit.

Hula, I would say that my son has completed that list (other than making errors in digit formation), and is also using money and telling the time. They've also covered counting in 2s, 5s and 10s as well as learning these as tables.

I guess what I am struggling with is whether from an educational perspective it is good for his work to be marked so strictly (the school insist that they are setting high standards). I personally think that he understands the topic on which he is being tested, but obviously his writing is letting him down. I am happy to see him supported in extra writing practice, but I don't think that the solution for a 5yo child who struggles is to give them more work to do at home say - there should be plenty of time in the school day to do this.

Emotionally I am at a stage where if there was an option to move I would do so in a flash. Practically the only way that I can do that is to move my older child (who is in KS2 so not restricted by 30 class-size) in order to get the younger one in on the basis of sibling already in school. And this school suits my older child.

I am toying with contacting Cognita directly to see what their take is.

Any particular reason why you can't answer the question, Melissa?

my 7yr old, yr 3 ds still reverses letters and numbers. He is still marked correctly in his times table tests if he has got the answer right, but his teacher comments on the paper every time.

The trouble is GT as I said earlier it says this "Have high expectations of every child, whatever their ability" on their website so I supect their policy is to isist all children 'perform' in the way they want them to regardless of whether or not the child is ready to do so.

Sorry if that sounds harsh - Its just my interpretation on it

Best of luck with it

Feenie, I am not sure that I need to tell you what year group I am teaching or better yet, "why are you teaching Y2 now-you were in reception at Christmas"
and you say "once again, melissa, I am afraid you are wrong" Not sure what your referring to here? Have I had contact with you before for you to be making this comment??

And, I am afraid Feenie, YOU are wrong, you will notice that within Ros Wilsons marking scheme which the majority of schools use to assist them to mark their writing assessments, within year two, a piece of writing is penalised if it contains a certain number of letter reversals. Also, in the SATS in Year Two, the handwriting aspect has elements of letter reversals in it.

Lastly, you will also notice that I did not go against what the OP was about, I did not say that the physical place value of the number reversal was what she had posted about, I just mentioned about the concept. Perhaps, responses need to be read Feenie before they are commented on?

"Any particular reason why you can't answer the question, Melissa? "

Excuse me?

First of all, I quite clearly said you were wrong about number reversals.

Second of all, Ros Wilson's marking criteria, although I prefer it, is NOT statutory, and in many places does not reflect the NC. I did not say you were wrong about letter reversals.

Thirdly, you said, and I quote "this is because in level two (the average for a Y2 child to be acheiving by years end is a 2B) they get marked down for letter and number reversals, so it is imperative to be more strict."

They do NOT get marked down for number reversals.

"Perhaps, responses need to be read Feenie before they are commented on?"
Quite!

I have seen you misinform parents here on a few occasions - recently about spelling tests, and more seriously regarding Y2 assessments, which you appear to have completely missed the point of - something I find worrying.
Why can't you say why you were teaching Reception at Christmas and are now teaching Y2 - surely it affects your integrity if you advise parents here?

She asked you a question Melissa, perhaps you didnt notice it, but she was keen to know the answer

Why are you teaching Y2 now, Melissa - you were in Reception at Christmas?

I am too actually tbh you know a lot of stuff to be sure but some of it isnt entirely true imho!

hulababy, you would be a great catch to have in the classroom! sadly, so many TA's do not get paid nearly enough for the work that they do over and above what is asked of them in their job description.

growlingtiger, hope your able to get it sorted out sooner rather than later. It is frustrating when one particular system suits one child in a family, but not their sibling. Goes to show how entirely different siblings can be. With the sending home of extra work, I find there are not enough hours in the day to fit everything in, so perhaps this is the case, where they want to give him the extra practise at home?

I give up....it is so sad that people on here are so pathetically sad and have nothing better to do with their time than to pick apart every little thing. Am I a counsellor, no-where have I "advised parents"?
Not that I need to justify myself to anyone, but I was covering a mat leave until Christmas and now I am teaching a split Y1/2. Is that ok with you?
It is so unfortunate that their are people like you Feenie who come along into a posting and ruin it for all involved. Was anynoe accusing anyone of anything or arguing before you came along? No, and this seems to be the case in other posts you have been in as well, as soon as you arrive on the scene all hell breaks loose. Maybe you should check Mumsnets policy on Trolls??

And I SAID "And, I am afraid Feenie, YOU are wrong, you will notice that within Ros Wilsons marking scheme which the majority of schools use to assist them to mark their writing assessments, within year two, a piece of writing is penalised if it contains a certain number of letter reversals. Also, in the SATS in Year Two, the handwriting aspect has elements of letter reversals in it." Perhaps the second time round you can read it?? Can you tell me on there where it says that Ros Wilsons scheme is "statutory"? as you have posted?

Growlingtiger, I hope you get your situation sorted out

and Feenie.... I hope you get a life

OK, I'm not a teacher, just another Cognita parent. Are there other teachers here saying that this (ie the OP's school) approach is right?

FWIW I'm not sure that Cognita schools do follow NC. Certainly I wouldn't have any idea as to what level the dcs are at (and I assume I would know as a parent?)