Is it okay for a school to tell you you cannot view it untill after your child has been accepted?

[PippiCalzelunghe]

if not what would you do? write, talk to them or nothing?

and would you send your child there based on other people's opinion/experience? (I think I've answered that already tbh.)

That sounds unbelievably smug - it's a school,ffs, not the Masons. Why can't you see it before you are offered a place? Would you pay thousands of pounds for anything else that you weren't allowed to view first? It's madness.

I would!
Cos I know the reports from the school, and I've met and are friends with a lot of very lovely 'old girls'.
I see the girls enrolled in the school everyday and they seem like a nice bunch of kids.
It's only a school after all. Most of them have a classroom, gym hall and toilets.
I don't feel that it's weird. If my Dd goes there I wouldn't like there to be hundreds of nosy parents traipsing round her classroom every week.

Are parents who take an interest in the environment in which their children may be spending the majority of their week really "nosy"? I would worry about a school that adopts this type of very authoritarian policy and seeks to distance parents as much as possible. It suggests to me that they would not be very open to criticism should the school fall short of your expectations.

'it's a school,ffs, not the Masons' lalalonglegs!!!

See I agree with hothell in what I am looking in a school and the one I saw it's exactly that. but because this is soooo close I feel I should see and then give my final vote.

I'm sorry but 'it's only a school' doesn;t sit well with me. prob because children spend the majority of their time there, because that's where 'everything' happens to them and what makes them settled (aside from family of course). I've been to school were a was the happiest and schools that I hated and made me miserable (and those schools were the ones the other mums told mine it was the best and I should go there.)

Well nosy for me would mean that parents were poking their heads into the classroom, or having guided tours around where my DD and other children would be doing their work: looking at their drawings, and other work and no doubt commenting on it!
I wouldn't like for that to happen to my DD.
I wouldn't like it to happen in my office would you?

Hypothetically, are these 'parents' checked out? It is possible they could be pedophiles.

I think you can get an impression about the school by going into the main hall, communal areas, having a chat about the facilities and by observing the general air of the place.

If the students seem happy, and the reports are good, I see very little need to go and examine the children's work areas when they are physically there. I think that is disruptive and nosy.

It's very unlikely they will pay someone to stay on in the evening or weekends to facilitate curious parents on their grand tour, so there usually will be children in the school when the curious parents are there traipsing through, judging, commenting and making notes.
Not the disruption I'd want every week for my DD.

I think you have to go with your gut, and in that way a school's a school.

You decide what's important - personally I want a happy and empowering atmosphere for my DD where she's supported academically. That can happen in any school with or without super-duper facilities.

I don't need to see the classroom layout to know whether I want to attend.

"Hypothetically, are these 'parents' checked out? It is possible they could be pedophiles."

Please tell me you are joking.

I would take it as a clear sign that I would not get along with the school and more on swiftly to another!

I would never send my children to a school that didn't facilitate parents looking round before.

Not necessarily because I would not get to see inside decor before the start of school but mostly because it sends a closed and unwelcoming "fuck you" attitude to the parents of it's pupils. Which I'd find even more galling if I were paying for the privilege.

It doesn't have to mean hundreds of parents each week during school hours. Maybe 1 open morning per term and a little flexibility for those who miss those.

'I think you can get an impression about the school by going into the main hall, communal areas, having a chat about the facilities and by observing the general air of the place. '

exactly! that's all I want to do but they won;t let me.

OH I do not know why I don't go for my gut instinct and leave it.

Zazen, that is truly naive. Not all schools are equal and not all schools are right for your child. The only way to know if a school is right for your child is to visit.

We coul not have chosen DSs school without a visit. There are 2 schools close to me each with similar results. We viewed both and found that our original first choice was not right, particularly for DS2 - we had to choose a school that would suit both our children. The 2nd school felt absolutely right and that's where they go. You can't know if a school is right unless you visit to get a feel for it.

We registered an interest at the nearest school and a few months later went to visit. We were offered a place after that.

I wouldn't send my child to a school that I hadn't visited first.

Zazan How else are parents meant to get a feel for a school without going in to the classrooms?

We were taken into one of the Reception classes, shown where the children's loos were and generally allowed to talk to who we wanted.

and at the suggestion that potential parents should be vetted in case they are paedophiles!

Why on Earth would you consider someone glancing at your child sat fully clothed at a desk as anymore of a threat that any other adult they encounter in everyday life.

I would want to see more than the main hall and communal areas because the way the classroom is laid out tells you a lot about the tone of the school - is it very formal or very relaxed? I would want to see how the teacher interacts with the children; the standard of the work on the walls; how stimulating the environment is; how clean and well-cared for it is. All these things tell you a lot more about the teaching style and school's environment than the league tables and Ofsted reports. I'm not looking for state of the art technology fit-outs or a concert hall. How can you go with your gut instinct and how are you ever going to know it's "a happy and empowering" place unless you visit and make your own judgments (rather than rely on the accounts of people whom the school, no doubt, spends a lot of time telling are extremely lucky to have their children permitted to attend)?

Why on earth would prospective parents be vetted !!!Its not as if tehy are going to be alone with pupils is it ?!!

Yeah I agree it is rude and would put me off!

However like everything now schools are a commerecial enterprise!

The school where I work is not full (due to birth rates not anything else!) So my head will show anyone around regardless of his schedule and is a lot less fussy about the child's history (eg multiple suspensions) as some of the other local headteachers. Apparently a class needs around 27 children to pay the teachers salary (so when you think about TA's and other staff in schools you can see why it is important to have full classes)

The head at your chosen school doesnt have to worry about any of that as there will always be people queing up for a place so can be as rude and fussy as they like - if you dont apply that is good for them as it means one less application to read and choose from!

The new admissions procedures were meant to even out these discrepencies but dont seem to have made much difference but it may take a few years before they take effect.

In the school's defence I imagine they have huge interest, and have parents requesting to view the school all the time - it can be disruptive to teaching & learning, but I am surprised they havent arranged something - even if it is to walk round the premises once all the kids have gone home!

update re my education issue: went to the school, spoken to secretary who was grumpy and stroppy as hell and told me she was sure the headteacher was too busy to make an apt for me but she would ask. She also checked dd's place on the list and gloating with evil smile she added 'she's well down anyway...'. so that's it. she prob won't go in (30 places) and I will change the application order anyway as I'd rather she went to the other school. I'm sure head won't bother replying.
whatever reason they have to act like that (oversubscription) I do not care - it's not the place for us.

I guess I'll get fitter by the daily walk.

I really think you should write to the head teacher - as you say, the secretary is very stroppy and, imho, will not reflect school policy. School secretaries are often complete hags. How can your daughter be well down the list when she lives opposite (unless the school is faith-based and you don't match the religious criteria)?

Some people are a bit scared of writing so just copy and paste this onto a letter:

Dear xxxx

I am very interested in visiting xxx school as I wish to apply for a place in the 2009 reception class for my daughter. I was unable to attend the open day and understand from the school secretary that visitors are not generally encouraged but wondered if any member of your staff might be available to give me a quick guided tour of the premises.

I have heard excellent reports about the school but, understandably, I would like to visit it personally before committing to such an important decision.

Yours

PippiCalzelunghe

lalalonglegs thanks . I think I better use yours as the one I wrote might be slightly as stroppy as the secretary .
yes it is a faith school (CofE) and yes we are not top of the list because we do not go to church. still I thought that there'd be some spaces left after the religious lot (no direspect). obviously not.
Like I said I'm very happy with the other choice, which I loved when I viewed it so there now all I have to worry is weather we live close enough to that one.

Prego

You absolutely can't choose a school without seeing it - and I mean seeing the whole school AND seeing how the teachers interact with the children. I would expect to be shown round by the head teacher, to be shown the Reception classrooms, the playground, the loos, whereever they eat, and also the Year 6 classrooms. It's important to see how the staff interact with the littlest and the oldest children in the school I would expect to be able to see the school actually working. I would also time my visit ao that I swa a bit of playtime - it's important to see how the children are "managed" outside lesson time. Oh, and I'd take a good look at the displays to make sure they are up to date.

Ideally I would like to have a word with some of the children - you can tell a lot from how the children talk about their school to visitors.

And if that makes me a paedophile, zazen, so be it!

My experience on schools and visiting is that the more heavily subscribed the school the ruder the receptionists. Which seems very sad to me. Also you should remember that you may find yourself interacting with the receptionist a fair bit, so their attitude may have an impact should your child go to that school.

I viewed three schools before my children started in the UK, and we went to four or five in the States and two in Canada. The only schools that didn't welcome us were oversubscribed, so we decided against applying there. I would not want my children to go to a school which didn't like parents, or one that employed rude people. A good headteacher will consider all their staff to be important and choose carefully. The school in England that we chose took me around even though I arrived on the last day before applications closed, and it was one of the reception team that showed me around. She was lovely and so were the children. It made it a very easy choice (and I made eight applications, so we had plenty of schools to chose from!). For the US schools the children came too for the viewings, and one of them (the one we chose) was very happy to show dh around, and then me and the children a couple of weeks later. They were excellent, very child focused (apart from masses and masses of homework).

I did say hypothetically y'know
And therefore, it is possible, though hopefully not probable! Wouldn't want to be late at the school gates though, especially with a young child if they already saw the teacher being friendly with that adult that day eh? It is possible hypothetically.

The private school across the road from us is very strict about showing parents around. They have an open evening talk in the main hall, and then you are offered a place: after you accept the place and pay a deposit you 'get' the tour of the actual school rooms etc.

They do this to protect the children and not to disrupt the teachers. And I like this policy - I don't want my child disturbed by hoards of adults traipsing through day in day out. She will be working there: it's not a train station.

I really have no need to see their little desks, or their paintings, before I know that I want my Dd o go there.
One little desk is the same as another and one painting is pretty much the same as another isn't it?

I'm just trying to show that we are not all the same about this. Some people can imagine little desks, and trust the reports and their gut feelings from what they see from the students going by their door, and from the general areas of the school, their interactions with the secretary etc, and some people actually have to see a little chair with a child sitting on it to form an opinion.
Some people want to disrupt the students and teachers, so they can have a walk through, and look at everything, and some people wouldn't dream of being so precious and disruptive.

Some schools don't mind adults walking through a child's environment day after day, and some schools are more protective of the children they are looking after. I know which school I would prefer to send my DD.

I'd go with my gut Pippi. HTH.