Not been offered a place at our preferred junior school - what to do?

[stringbean]

Well, the letters came out today, but we didn't get our preference....but everyone else I've spoken to, including people who live further from the school, did. Ds is at the infant school and this is the linked junior school which has not offered a place.

We are not in catchment, and do not have another child on the role. However, we have a younger child starting at the school in September who has a full statement; her place has already been offered via the statement, but we didn't get a letter for her today, whereas everyone else I know did get letters and places offered for their younger children (including those out of catchment). In addition, I know people who do not have another child on the role, who are also out of catchment and live further from the school than we do, and their children have been offered places at the junior school.

Do admissions teams make mistakes? It seems they have clearly not followed their criteria. We come fairly low on the list I know, but given that other people further from the school and also out of catchment have been offered places, do we have a case?

In particular, will we be made to go through the whole appeal process because of their mistake? It seems so unfair; we have been through so much for our younger child in terms of sorting out education and getting statement and support. Will the admissions team just admit their mistake and offer a place, or are we stuck in limbo for a couple of months?

If anyone can offer advice, I'd be very grateful. Many thanks.

Just get on and appeal. Of course they make mistakes in complicated cases. That's what gives you good grounds for appeal . Keep focussed, keep to the facts and lay them on with a trowel.

I am confused. If I've understood rightly: your son is due to transfer from infant to junior school and hasn't got a place at your preferred school. But his younger sister has already got a place there for September (although this hasn't been confirmed by letter). Is that right? How can a younger sibling get ahead of an older one in the allocation process? And why would siblings of different ages be starting at the same time?

Anyway, these are the points which occur to me. This is based on my experience as an admissions appeal panel member in my LEA but yours may do things differently.

1. Look at everything on the DCSF website about the school admissions code, especially anything about children with statements.

1. Did you actually apply for a place at the school for your daughter? In my LEA, I believe, you have to submit an application for your child, even if they have a full statement naming that school. Otherwise, the school doesn't have formal notification that you wish your child to go there (they may be assuming that you've found a place out of borough, in an independent school etc).

1. In our LEA, the sibling criterion is written in terms of having a sibling who will be at the school when the child applying for the place would start. Look very carefully, then, at what your LEA's criterion says.

1. In our LEA, even if the decision not to offer a place was an error, the parents have to go though the appeal process. The LEA cannot simply take a place away from another child in order to give it to the child who should have had it, if you see what I mean. If there is a clear error, proving it at appeal should be relatively easy.

1. Don't get side-tracked into speculating why other children have been offered a place. Gather all the evidence you can to demonstrate that your son fulfils the criteria and should have been awarded a place.

1. If I'm right, though, in thinking that you didn't actually apply for a place for your daughter (and if your LEA requires you to apply for her place rather than relying on the statement) you will need to resolve that quickly if your son's claim to a place rests on being her sibling. That might mean a second appeal on her behalf, depending on your LEA's procedures.

1. Does your LEA have a parents' advocate or adviser? If so, enlist their help.

1. Advice is also available from the Advisory Centre for Education.

Sorry this is so long. Help it helps.

there must be a mistake? i thought if infant/jumior schools were linked children already in the infant part of the school automatically got a place?

I assume his younger sister should have a place at the infant school he is just leaving (did you make the application as usual as the statement itself may not have done this) ? Among the published criteria for the junior school admissions do those with siblings attending there get priority over those who don't. Similalry is attendance of the infant school mentioned or any other criteria which may help you. If so, and you don't think these have been applied to your ds' case, then you have grounds for appeal. Focussing on those who dc have been offered a place won't necessarily help as you need to find specific grounds .

nancy if the site is split(ie infant /juniors) with separate heads, premises etc then you have to reapply for the junior school at year 3.

If they're run as separate schools, you have to apply again for juniors, I think. At least, that's how it works in our neighbouring LEA which has separate infant and junior schools (ours doesn't).

Similarly, our LEA requires parents to apply for primary places even if the child is already in the school's nursery, because nursery and primary admissions criteria are different and transfer is not automatic.

linked schools in Surrey mean that if you have an older child at the juniors then a younger one going to the linked infants will qualify as a sibling - it doesn't work the other way around.

It does mean you automatically get a place in the juniors unless that is top of their admissions criteria?

You don't necessarily have to appeal to be considered - they will probably have a waiting list, which is flexible. If they've made a mistake you'd be number 1 on the list (and remember the places haven't been accepted yet so some will come up).

Where we are, being in the nursery class does not mean you have priority into Reception. You have to apply again (although its the same school). Siblings get priority, although not in nursery (DS2 had a place in Nursery, and DS1 didn't have a place). My arguement was that the sibling policy should still apply. The next criteria is distance from the school by lit streets (the way you would walk it, not cutting across parks or the like).

Not all schools have sibling policies, some are phasing them out unfortunately.

Admissions do make mistakes - our letter acknowledging our application for DD1 had her down as 'distance' (when the closest to the school are offered first), when she should be 'sibling'. If they'd buggered it up then, we wouldn't have a place.

and as to others being "further from the school" , I'm not sure that once deemed "out of catchment" it is necessarily taken into account. If it is stated to be then you need to check how they measure the distance, since it may not be the way you assume.

Our LEA does distance as the crow flies ie straight line so people who seem further away (because they are by road/path) can actually be closer.

Agree. You need to read the rules very carefully as to what happens in the out-of-catchment/no siblings/linked infants school category when there are more children than places. It could be the rules are applied in a way that doesn't favour you. Could you have filled the form in incorrectly? E.g. missed off the linked infant school bit?

Your younger child's application is a separate issue - maybe that is still in the post?

I feel for you - being the weekend all you can do is fret!

I can't advise on appeals for NT kids but I do know that if the allocated school causes you problems with drop off for other statemented children, you can contact RE transport. I also know that LEA's don't like to pay for transport and it could in your favour when they're looking at your case.

Arh, "out of catchment" our schools don't have a catchment area.

Thank you for your replies. Sorry, I didn't make it clear; dd starts at the infant school (ie. where ds already is) in September. Her application was made by the county, as per local policy; we received a letter from them in September to say they had made the application on our behalf. We had not had the confirmation that she had the place when we made ds's application to the junior school, and could not claim she was on the role, although I did make it clear in the comments section of ds's application that she would be starting and we wanted both children on the same school site.

It appears, in our case, that the admissions office has not applied their distance criteria, such that other children in the same situation as us, but further from the school, have been offered a place. This is really our only defence, however.

What sort of information do we need to get together for an appeal? Should we get details of other people who have been offered places (eg. addresses to demonstrate distance? It seems a pretty harsh way of going about it). Surely there's a precedent if they've offered a place to others further away? Is this not grounds for offering a place?

What about the school who has offered us a place (this is our catchment school). Dh thinks we should accept this, in case our appeal fails, but I'm reluctant to do it, as I think this will bias the appeals process. My main concern is that the admissions office will admit they've made a mistake but be unable to accept ds at our preferred school on the grounds that they've filled their places.

You can't use the fact others have got a place as a basis for your appeal. You have to demonstrate the criteria have nto been applied. However are you sure distance criteria applies once places to those within catchment are allocated.

we didn't get into either of our local schools .4 +.5 miles away.

We live in an are where 3 new schools were planned all the new houses were sold and they cancelled one of the schools. The 2 schools left are left to cope with 3 schools worth of children -never going to happen. As the schools were new and children = money they let anyone form anywhere in just to get funding so when ds came to need a place siblings of children out of catchment got his place twice over. We are 18th on the list for the .4 and 13 for the .5. We were never going to get a place.

When I phoned the la to ask how my child didn;t het in yet my neighbour's child was lower down on the list and had been allocated and excellent school that I would have never put down as a choice as it much further away than the 2 closest so didn't think I had a chance in hell of getting in and my neighbour didn;t even out it down as a choice at all (?) yet got a place the lady said that netween me and her they look at the first/second choices and then allocate according to the rules and anyone left over is put into a hat and names are pulled out with children randonly being allocated to the schools who have places left. My child gets the sink school and my neighbour gets the excellent school she did't even apply for.

Ds now goes to an indepedent school as the sink school has behaviour issues and ds needs firm handling (the independent school is only just coping with him and in a class of 30 I think he would be a nightmare)

We wanted to go local but couldn't and I'm still annoyed we couldn't

Did you name the school which he has been allocated on your application form ?

Don't they have a waiting list? Find out where you are on it, there will initially be a lot of movement, so if you are at the top of the list, chances are you'll get in.

I was going to homeschool until DS1 got his place. I made it perfectly clear and asked the school to support this, given it was only a matter of time before he went there (but I'm pig-headed like that ). He got his place in June, some places were given out in September as people accept then move over the summer without notifying the school.

It really depends on how strongly you feel about it. I felt very strongly and it was more important because once he was in, the others were going there. I was obsessed and rang the LEA everyday to check my place on the waiting list

schoolsappeal.com were brilliant for a £5 subscription you can get loads of good, useful information on how to appeal.

Thanks for the clarification. Very quickly, as I am neglecting the many other things I ought to be doing!

1. I don't really understand what 'linked' schools mean, as we don't have them in our LEA. Are the infant and junior schools treated as one or as two schools for admissions purposes?

1. What do the admissions criteria for each school say about siblings who attend the same school or the other half of the pair? In other words: will your daughter's place in the infants give your son any priority for the juniors?

1. You need confirmation now, I think, of your daughter's place. Chase that up with the LEA (or the school if it's the school that actually issues the letters). It sounds as if she should have a place, but you need that documented.

1. If your daughter's place in infants does not give your son any priority for a place in the juniors, you need to go back to the admissions criteria. (Our LEA does not have catchment areas but (after looked-after children, those with statements and siblings) just awards places on distance to school. So it will be whatever number live closest, as measured by safe walking route). How, according to the admissions criteria, does your LEA prioritise the out of catchment applications? Is distance a factor or is it (say) names out of a hat?

1. The LEA won't disclose information about pupils and there's no point trying to argue that 'so and so got a place'. But the LEA should be able to tell you the furthest distance at which a place was awarded. So, if distance is a criterion for out of catchment applications, you may be able to argue that you live closer than some of the other families who have places.

1. If you reject the place at the school you've been offered it will not help your appeal. All LEAs are probably alike in this; our LEA is very resistant to blackmail and will not be swayed by parents arguing 'you've got to give him a place at school A because we've turned down the place we were offered at school B'. Your appeal will be decided on its merits and turning down a place at the other school for your son may leave you - if you don't win - with no school place at all.

Don't feel you have to answer these questions - they're just meant as things for you to look at as you prepare your case for an appeal.

Good luck!

Thanks again for your replies. By linked schools, both are on the same site but with separate heads and treated as separate schools. Attendance at the infant school does not guarantee attendance at the juniors, but in practice, all the children transfer to the junior school, although a separate application needs to be made.

The county's policy is that once all the catchment places have been offered, then children out of catchment get offered a place. If they have a sibling in the school, they get priority over those who do not, however after this, the distance from school applies, measured in a straight line. I know of at least four families (I've found out today) who have the same situation as us (but without the statement) who have been offered places at the junior school for their older children and in Year R for their younger ones. It just seems that the criteria has not been applied on our case, but if saying 'such and such has been offered a place and they live further away than us' won't help, I'm not sure we have a leg to stand on.

The reason we applied to this school is that it will suit dd's needs much better than our catchment school. She is deaf and our preferred school has more experience of this than our catchment school, better acoustics etc; however, I want both children on the same school site, hence ds going to that school too. It's really not practical for me to drop off children at 2 separate schools.

I think you might be best explaining that to the school and asking for ds to go on the waiting list , rather than involving the LEA.

I think what one of the other posters said is that you can ask what is the furthest away from the school a person has been allocated a place who is in the same situation as you and if you are nearer than that then you can prove they haven't applied their criteria.

I wonder if it something to do with your dd, did you fill in an application form for her to go to the infants school?

That depends on who maintains the list - ours recently switched from school to LEA, although the waiting list is still run by the school for the nursery. But yes, I agree, find out where you are on the waiting list.

Its just rubbish that these letters come on a Saturday and leave us stewing all weekend!

Could it be two different departments have handled the infant admissions? When it comes to light, I'm sure you will get your place. Junior schools don't have to be as strict as infants with going over the numbers.

I must say it sounds odd (if I've interpreted correctly) that you have priority at the juniors if you have a sibling at the infants. Seems a bit unfair on the youngest child!

Could you talk to Head? She may, on the basis that dd is statemented, be willing to give a first palce on the waiting list- almost guaranteed a palce then (someone is bound to move / be offered another school / go private)