DS hating new school - How long should I give it?

[luckywinner]

Can I ask you all your opinions on something I am really struggling with? I feel like I am being a slightly overprotective mother but I just can't get away from a really strong feeling I have.

My ds (4 in April) has just started at a nursery attached to a school and it is not going too well. I know it is early days but I had major reservations about sending him there (call it gut instinct) but we were hoping he would go to reception there in September and it is a v oversubscribed, C of E school and the school has implied in not so many words they give priority to children in the nursery who meet the other criteria (eg regular church attendance).

They have a settling in period of roughly a week. They start as going mornings first (and eating lunch) and then progress to all day - 8.55-3.20pm. There is no flexibility in the hours and days they go. And they are expected to go to full days after a week.

So my ds, who has been blissfully happy at a local pre-school and staying there a couple of days for lunch to get used to it, has now done 10 days at his new nursery, three of which have been all day, and it has completely floored him. He has gone from being a happy, content boy to now being tired, grumpy, naughty, occasionally agressive and completely wiped out.

On Thursday when I picked him up after him being there all day the teacher pulled me aside and told me another child saw ds bash another child on the hand with a car. She also mentioned he wouldn't look at her when she talked to him about it. I am in no way bothered that she told my son off, although of course he is perfect but it really bothered me she was telling me such a minor misdemeanour, when I suppose I view it as typical three year old behaviour (he does this to me when he is tired). I suppose what I mean is by her telling me I felt like she was making it into a big deal and not giving him any allowances for being on his first week in a strange place etc.

This all sounds very trivial now I have written it down but it has made me think about all the doubts I had about sending him there in the first place. I hate that he has to go full time at such a young age. I hate that there is little or no communication between parents and teacher, I don't know what he has for lunch, I hate that his teacher is so business-like. These are little ones fgs, some of whom have never been away from their mums and she treats them like year 1s.

I have a friend who's son has also started with my ds and her eldest is in year 1. Her words to me have been, 'the first two years are horrendous. But it does get better in year 1. You just have to keep your head down.'

But I don't want to do that. I don't want to wish my little boy's life away just so he can have a place at reception. It sucks!

There are two other schools near us. One is dreadful and the other is catholic and the best in the borough. We cannot afford private (we are in London) and anyway I should have put his name down at birth if I wanted that option.

We drove past his old nursery at the weekend and he said to me 'Mummy I don't like my church school, I want to back to my *** nursery'. He cried on Friday morning that he didn't want to go to church school (his words!) and at the weekend he asked me whether it was the weekend because he wanted to be with me and daddy and his sister, not at school.

So how long do I give it? I know it is early days but my heart keeps telling me its wrong. The alternative for us would be to move out of London but that would be a massive decision for us due to dh's job.

I'm sorry if this all sounds trivial but I have no experience of this and I am worried. I am always positive with him about it but underneath it all I want to take him out, now!

Hope you find a solution Lucky. Check out the alternatives but I would not jump to any conclusions just yet. Give him some sick days let him rest and do this regularly until half term and then review.

Any adults that work in a school would surely realise that a 3 year old just starting full time is likely to be tired, grumpy and possibly aggressive. I would definitely take my child out if at all possible. I do think however, that the teacher may have only been telling you about the car incident to keep you informed, but only you know how she approached you and whether you felt like she was making a big deal of it.

luckywinner, what area of london are you? do you know that you dont have to just apply for schools in your borough, if you live close to the edge of the borough and there are schools in a neighbouring borough that you like you can apply for those too. they give priority on actual distance not on you living in say greenwich rather than lewisham.

Tech, I know what you mean, it is possible that was what she was doing, I just wonder whether it was necessary to tell me something so little. I am trying to be positive about it though.

He is doing alternate half days this week as I told them he was too tired to do all days.

I think I also might call his old nursery back and see what the chances are to beg back his place.

Thanks though everyone, you have honestly made me feel a lot better, that I wasn't being paranoid and my instinct is right. I just need to work out what to do!

If I could I would move out of London tomorrow but dh would have to stay behind and be with us at weekends and I would miss him a lot, as would the dc.

Full days at 3 is crazy. Also, I would be strongly suspicious of the motivation of the school in adopting nursery attendance as a criterion for school entry. It smacks to me f them wanting to mold the children as early as possible with a view to skipping te usual settling in that goes on at reception. And I think that is unfair and a bit unfeeling of the needs of 3/nrealy 4 year olds, who get tired, want to be at home adn IMO aren't ready for formal education setting.

DD and ds both went to preschool attached to a school, but not feeding in directly. DD then went to a different school because we lived marginally outside catchment. But she has been fine and while the school not great ofsted-wise, in all other respects it has been wonderful so far for her. When she started school at 4.5 she had been attending pre-school 2 full days and 1 morning a week, which was plenty. DS goes 2 afternoons a week at the moment (he is 3 and a quarter) but I expect will up it to 2 full days and a morning by the last term before school proper. BUt I may not - will see nearer the time.

Nancy I am in Westminster. We are sort of on the border with Brent. That's a good point though, I might look into schools across the border.

at all this! Can I just ask the reason why the school says he HAS to do full days? I don't understand how it's being funded if it's a state school. Am I right in thinking the the government will only fund each child for 12.5 hours per week? Where is the rest of the funding coming from?

WOuld add that dd's school is also one that is not first choice for the middle class mummy. It has a much more varied intake than the pre-school school. And the ofsted is satisfactory rather than good/outstanding and SATS not great. But value added score is actually better (reflecting the intake) and you know what, the teachers are lovely, the headmistress is great and dd is thriving, positively thriving. And because the catchment is more deprived than the borough standard (which is generally pretty affluent and MC), they have heaps of activities for adults at the school (with free creche), fantastic after school clubs and out of school clubs and a really positive attitude to all the children.

I have never asked why they do full days. Could maybe the extra funding come from the Church?

Pooka, you have it exactly right when you say:

'Also, I would be strongly suspicious of the motivation of the school in adopting nursery attendance as a criterion for school entry. It smacks to me f them wanting to mold the children as early as possible with a view to skipping te usual settling in that goes on at reception'

I am so angry at myself for getting sucked into the frenzy of I must get my son a place at this school. I wish I had listened to my doubts but I just panicked that there would be nowhere for him to go.

have just had a look at the westminster site, what i would do is ring the school admission people and find out if they have a list telling you how far peopole have lived in previous years and still got into each school (this info doesnt seem to be on there)
our area provides this and it basically tells you
school A - last year everyone that lived0.8 miles from the school got in ect.
then look at every school that you might get into. although there are not loads of schools in westminster one thing in your favour is that there probably arent as many people with children so the school catchment areas might be bigger than you think.

LUckywinner - don't feel bad. I have to admit (with a certain degree of shame) that I still hanker after first choice school. I think I feel sometimes that I have let dd down by not getting her in there (and her best friends do go there).

Also, it would be so easy for me - I know so many people there still, and the playground would be familiar and cosy. Added to which, there is the nagging knowledge that we could have sent her private, so again I am thinking have I sold her short by deciding to go with state school rather than super-achieving private school.

BUt my mother is very good at reminding me how happy dd is, and how what we do at home with her is what will mold her at this age (she is now 5.5).

But your description of the school reminds me very much of the top performing (catholic) state school in this borough, which sounds really rather unfriendly. 100% in SATS. Outstanding ofsted. But useless in terms of providing a happy environment for children with special needs, very strict, and incredibly pressured.

Lots of "sick" days sound like the way to go. He would probably enjoy it if he wasn't so tired. it's not like they'll need a Doctors note is it?

I took my dd out of nursery after half a term. It too was attatched to a well thought of Primary that people were killing themselves to get in to. I felt that the whole school was riding on it's reputation and OFSTED and it was in fact, shit.

They didn't give a hoot about the children and depended on the middle-classness of the parents to deal with both behavior and even with the actual teaching. We were told to teach them their sounds etc ourselves at home. If any parent made any waves at all they were squashed and told how over subscribed the school was. My dd stopped singing songs, she forgot how to write her name and when I went in to see the teacher she didn't even seem to know which child my dd was.

It was a huge decision to take me dd out. She had been at pre-school for a year with most of the children she left behind. Some of the other mothers stopped talking to me. Well most of them really. I put my dd back into her pre-school which she loved. Some of the children were 2.5 and she was 4. I really worried that I had made a huge mistake.

I chose a school which had been in special measures for reception, after going to visit every school in the area. They have a lovely new dynamic She settled in there straight away in September. It is a lovely school and I am more than happy with it.

I am so pleased that I took her out of the nursery. I have heard lots of other parents complaining about it now too. It was difficult for me to do but it was the right decision for us. As soon as I decided and got her a place at pre-school I was so relieved.

Bless you all and your lovely messages. I did not sleep well last night but dh took ds to school this morning as he is a bit better at being impartial.

Savoy, I was thinking of doing the same. I am going to call his pre-school this morning and beg! They also do reception there, although at a price so we could think about that. I would have to go back to work, which would be fine, considering my line of work is as a nursery teacher .

Will let you know what we decide to do though. And thanks again lovely mumsnet for not making me feel like I was being some psycho-protective pfb mother.

Are you really sure there are those few choices? We're in London too and have four schools within half a mile. We chose a school that a lot of other people scorned because when we visited it felt really friendly and relaxed. It made us the odd ones out amidst many other middle class parents, but I'm glad my lo's there as it's a lovely school. So don't listen to what the other say, but go and visit the other schools. You might be pleasantly surprised.

• for what it's worth, I'd take him out regardless. He's only little once and those years are so key.

We are very limited with our choices round here as all our schools within a similar radius are church schools for which we do not qualify. I am going to look at another one in a week's time. The lady was absolutely lovely on the phone and it is similar to you smee, it is def scorned by the middle classes, which I suppose I am part of .

I have spoken to his old nursery teacher this morning, who I am sort of friends with anyway, and she has made me feel a bit better. She has said the school is a good one, but to give it a month as in her experience this is how long it takes to go from a lovely fluffy nursery school to the state system.

I know this but it still brings me back to the fact that he's only 3! This just keeps coming back in my mind in big red flashing neon lights but I feel so limited in my choices.

I think that the way forward will be lots of days out being 'ill' if he's too tired. And I have found a way to spy as they need parents to read to the children so I am definitely going to vounteer with that.

It's not totally relevant this, but DS's little group at nursery all left to start school this January and the range of settling in went from - you can stay as long as your child needs you, and if there's a problem we'll work with you to get them through it (which was our school), to Day 1 leave your child in the playground, no parent allowed inside regardless of how upset the child is. The Church schools were the most extreme, which I have to say did make me wonder. Fortunately for me am not in the slightest religious

LW I think this is the way forward. At least if you decide to take DS out of the school it will have been a considered opinion and not a knee jerk response.

My DS adores school now (he now will not stay home even when he is sick) he is still adjusting because he finds it tiring even at 4.9 - but he loves the buzz of it all. Your DSs behaviours are because he is tired and just keep reminding the teacher that this is the reason. Get him to bed really early and watch his diet - protein, iron tonic, fish oils etc.

luckywinner, trying to figure out where you are... if you are in westminster bordering brent surely you must be bordering camden too or at least not too far from it?

Camden borough is not too far. Actually, thinking about it, it is v near! I am thinking the bit at the bottom of Kilburn High Road and Maida Vale.

Is that your area beforesunrise? Please tell me you have a magic wand!

v v near me and i am also struggling!!! am going to try and CAT you

i am catable! how exciting!

i dont want to pay the 5 quid! anyway, schools near me that are in camden but v near you... St Mary's COE on Quex Road, St Eugene de Mazenod RC, and Kingsgate. Dont know much about any of these schools but planning to visit them soon. my dd is a bit younger than yours though

I've paid the fiver, shall I try and cat you my email?

I never thought to look at camden. I won't put the school name just in case but we are surrounded by faith schools. How old is your dd?

Am going to look at Robinsfield in NW8 as someone told me its good. I just saw your other thread about independent schools. don't have time now but will post on that too as it is v similar to how I feel.

sorry haven't read all the thread but surely they no right whatsoever to insist upon 5 full days a week at this age.

And they should tell you what they're giving him for lunch!