What Annoys You About Independent Schools?

[zanzibarmum]

Me? Independent schools who:

• tell applicants not to tutor their children when the entire prep school set up is precisely about cramming for common entrance exams;
• refuse to explain content of common entrance exam, again which discriminates against state school applicants;
• entrance exam papers which are clearly biased - Latymer's practice paper asks a question about the size of a hockey stick;
• poo poo league tables when their whole raison d'etre is to churn out As and A*;
• promote all the sport they do but in practice do very little for most children;
• who do not standardise entrance exam scores for age - selecting therefore the oldest not necessarily the brightest (cf churning out As and A*;.

Clearly, there are lots of good things about some independent schools but generally they have an easy life and probably coast on the back of the intelligence (innate or prepped) on their students.

I have spoon fed grammar school pupils, independent pupils,'high' school (sec modern) pupils and comp pupils. I don't care who gets spoon fed - JUST GET THE BLOODY GRADE!!!!!

Unfortunately that is generally (all lovely extra curricular things considered, value added etc etc) what it comes down too.

Sillenacht - I hope you are wrong. Getting the bloody grade may be necessary but is not sufficient. Rather I want a school who stirs the imagination and sense of enquiry so that long after a particular algeraic formula is forgotten they are active citizens and continuous learners.

Yes would that it were so

Of course schools do their best to enhance childrens general life education but unfortunately the league tables and other stuff does matter for funding purposes.

Non-selective does not mean the same thing as socially selective. That is quite an extraordinary thing to believe.

Do you not think that all children deserve a good educational experience? Why do you think that it should be limited to the top 20%, or whatever?

Plus, you get very bright childen who thrive better in a smaller, more pastoral environment. Nothing about being dim.

Spoon feeding = teaching, I gather, rather than crowd control.

NO!!! Spoon feeding is not teaching - its teaching by numbers

I hate spoonfeeding - i wish i didn't have to do it but lack of time and too much content in the curriculum to cover is usually to blame.

Science Teacher.
So on what basis would an academically non-selective school choose its pupils if its not, in part at least, based on ability to pay.

What is spoon feeding exactly?

I do my job as a teacher, which means that I know each of my pupils invididually. I know where they are and how well they are coping and how they are progressing. If they have difficulties, I help them. I am happy to see them at non-standard lesson times, if that is what they want. If they have an off-topic question, I will stop and answer it, and I will go off-lesson plan if it is in the best interests of my pupils. I will go the extra mile for any of my pupils.

I guess this is spoon feeding to some, but to me, it is just plain ordinary teaching.

What is the alternative to spoon feeding, I wonder? It can't be just telling them to read the text book because those things are a bit thin on the ground in some schools. Perhaps it's ignoring the quiet ones in the class. Or having to have a print out of their photos, especially at report writing time.

Zanzibar,

On the ability to pay, non selective schools are no different to selective schools. Both types of schools will have bursaries available for pupils who would benefit from that particular type of education.

And in the selective sense, it is not much different to state schools with tight catchment areas - selection by where you live (an where you live is often tied into your wealth).

Yes yes of course that is teaching.

Spoon feeding is saying "ok if you do such and such in such a way then you are likely to get this grade" (for GCSE classes or above)

For example in my subject they have to compose a waltz - if they modulate (and you show them how to do this - not exact notes obviously but examples) half way thru, if they use dotted rhythms or syncopation they will tick certain requirements and achieve higher grades than if they are shown all about waltzes, given examples have discussions etc etc and then (with guidance obviously) they get on with it.

Isn't that called Assessment for Learning? Some TLA that is a buzzword in state school insets?

Ha! Guess what our INSET day on Monday was on

don't understand scienceteacher - what do you mean?

Telling a pupil how they can improve their work and get the highest grade possible. It is good teaching pracitice, surely.

It seems to me that we all know how to teach well. In independent schools, the systems allow us to put that into practice. In state schools, it is often crowd control (and I have taught in grammer and know that it is not much different). In order to deal with the frustration of not being able to do what we want to do, we look at the other side and accuse them of spoonfeeding.

Just as I accuse you of crowd control.

I teach in a state school science teacher and do not do crowd control, your experience of teaching sounds exactly the same as mine.

I am not naive I know there are schools where crowd control goes on, I have taught in one but that does not represent state schools as a totality.

In my lessons today I have signposted to students what they need to do to achieve but have not taught to an exam.

Scienceteacher - do you think that the systems in your school would enable me to teach my pupils in the way you teach yours? Do you think those systems are applicable universally in education and would result in the imnporved education of all children?

improved

Scienceteacher - pleeeeeaaase its grammar school - not grammer!

also;

I haven't accused anyone of spoonfeeding apart from myself i don't think.

I have never had to crowd control in my school thank God.

was feeling the same frustration about spelling of grammar school!

snore snore ...Assessment for learning...can somebody wake me up when its all over!

I don't know anything about your school, TFM.

What I like about my school is that it is a small school and I know all the pupils in the senior school and a good number of the juniors. I teach/tutor about 90 pupils. It means that I can build relationships with them. As well as teaching my subject, I take an interest in what is going on in their lives. Having a good emotional rapport is conducive to effective learning, especially with girls (I teach in a girls' only school).

Because it is a small school, I know my colleagues well and work collaboratively with them. I also have to do a lot of activities outside of my teaching duties, for example, I help out with Games. Generally mucking in makes me a good role model for the pupils in making an effective community.

I have taught in large schools and did not find my niche there. I personally find teaching difficult when you don't know your pupils well and when you know that you struggle to do the basics of your job (eg to mark books well and regularly - marking is my weakest area, btw). I also don't enjoy crowds - I hated when I was in schools of 1000+ and the sheer difficulty of moving between classes.

The trend within state schools is to go bigger and bigger, which I do not think is good. They are recognising the issues by having totally separate streams (with their own staff), but then you think why not just have different schools?

The other thing that I think my school does well is in a laid-back strictness. We have no lee-way in uniform. We specify right down to hair accessories (and they do have to have their hair tied back). The pupils just don't try it on very often, or if they do, they accept when they are caught out. The lack of wiggle room means they know when they are in the right or wrong. Parents do too. Everyone is on the same page.

We have a pretty good pastoral care system too - but a lot of this comes down to our small size. We use our Sixth Formers and Year 11s to pastor to the younger pupils, and we give the older ones lots of responsibilities within school. I know our systems are not unique to us, but I have never seen them to work so well.

I wouldn't want all schools to be like my school because my school wouldn't be a good fit for everyone. I would want there to be different cultures in different schools so that everyone can fit in somewhere. Size is not good - small is beautiful.

AfL is boring, but don't you do it? Don't you have to? Or is it something reserved for inspections?

Your schoool sounds very much like mine scienceteacher but it is co- ed and bigger. We have a house system so it does have a smaller family feel.

i think we have insets on it - when i hear the dreaded words this is what i do

(altogether now!) i close my ears ...(continues singing to music of Joseph's "Any Dream Will Do")