OK MN jury - so which is better for a bright child, small school or big school, ancient or modern?

[solidgoldbrass]

Am hunting up schools for DS who is 4 now. We have so far looked at 2 very contrasting ones: the first small scale, intake of 30, inclined towards traditional teaching, the second has 3 reception classes (intake of 90), huge great place, modern 'holistic' approach to education...

I don't know what to think. DS is a notably clever kid so I want to give him the best chances and make sure he doesn't get bored by having to go at the pace of the slowest kids etc...

depends on the teacher! If they are enthusiastic and competent then your child will do well

Well, first of all, whichever school you choose at least 90% of the intake will be 'notably clever' in the eyes of their doting parents. You will however, in common with that other 90% of parents spend the first couple of years fretting that your child isn't being 'stretched enough'. Then about Year Three or so you will chill out. Pick a school that seems to have a happy, open, friendly atmosphere. Your child will thrive. I promise.

My dd is considered bright and goes to a large inner-city Victorian built primary school. She is doing fine (now in Yr3)

Ds is in Reception at the same school, not at teh same level as his sister but also doing fine.

I'm not a teacher but from what I can see the brighter ones are not kept at the pace of the average children or those needing extra support. All the children are grouped according to ability for literacy and numeracy and each group is given its own level of work. There is also movement between the groups.

Hope that makes sense!

LadyGP: so is it really only 10% of parents that worry over their child's slowness compared to neighbours/possible learning difficulties/whether they are making the right parenting decision? I would have thought it more like 50-50 - 'my DC is not clever enough is it my fault' and 'my DC is so clever he/she will be a geek and have no friends...'

I've liked the teachers at both schools so am none the wiser.

Mercy: Thanks. I am sort of wondering if DS would thrive better in working-with-difernt-groups than with whole-class teaching, but then due to my own education I get in a dreadful muddle about ancient vs modern teaching methods and which is best.

I find it is very rare for parents to think that their child is not bright in their preschool years - they are at such an inquisitive stage of development. Certainly if you are in a middle class area, or if you are a parent who has looked at more than one school, then I think that the 90% is about right.

All bright children are exactly the same and are totally distinct from other, common-or-garden varieties. They thrive best in a single-sex fee-paying environment where they can flourish in a nurturing ambiens of RP, Latin vocab, straw boaters and short shorts in winter.

[depressingly low-grade fuckwittery emoticon]

But in answer to your op, then have you looked at the destination schools that the pupils go to. I think that that is important eg if one of the schools regularly has pupils heading to selective secondary schools (depending on what is available in your area) or good comps, then that is a good indicator.

I assune SATS results etc of both schools are similar.

Have you looked at the Ofsted reports for both schools (I'm not convinced they are overly helpful for parents but they do give an overview at least)

Do you know any other parents who already have children at these schools?

There is not much whole class teaching at primary level these days, SGB. Your child will usually be working in ability groups for literacy and maths pretty much from the beginning whatever school he is at.
And, IME, the vast majority of parents DO think their child is brighter than the average.
Points to consider:
Is he outgoing and sociable or will he be happy with a quieter atmosphere - especially at playtime - a school playground in a large school can be a daunting place. On the other hand, a smaller school could mean fewer like-minded friends.
After school clubs - there are likely to be more opportunities on offer at the larger school. What kind of provision is there for music lessons, art, drama, sports?
Distance from school/catchment area. As he gets older, having school friends living nearby, so that you can walk to school together or visit each other's houses under your own steam is increasingly important.

Hey, the main or at least the second-main factor in choice is accessiblity as we are car-free. Luckily there are 4/5 nearby schools to choose from, we have 2 more to see and one I refuse to apply for (but luckily we won't end up there anyway).

I rather think that looking at the other 2 schools may help becauase at least then I can calibrate it a bit: it's these two having been such opposites that has thrown me.

Hello solidgoldbrass. If all things are otherwise equal amongst them, you could try deciding on the grounds that you, as parents, feel more sympathy with one rather than the other. It's a wonderful thing if you feel committed to a school's ethos because it will mean that you probably already extend that ethos in the family home, you won't find yourselves, as parents, coming into conflict with that ethos, and you will support that at home. Also, if you have more than one child/are intending to have more, you will have chosen a school based on broad family appeal and it will therefore have something that resonates with something in your family as a whole rather than snugly fitting just the one child.
You might also like to try wandering around the local park and chatting to parents with older children. You'll almost certainly be able to get the low-down on what it's actually like to be involved with those schools on a weekly basis and maybe even a sense of the sort of families that are involved in those schools.
I don't think, just on the basis of size/teaching approach you can decide the bright child thing. Liberal, large schools vary amongst themselves so much, likewise small, traditional schools. I do think you really have to look at each school as a unit.
I tend to find the listing pros and cons things really helpful.
On the plus side, it sounds as though you have found two schools you are pretty happy with and could see you angel at. That's brilliant!

DOugal: Yes, there is that - 2 acceptable schools, the larger of which was not oversubscribed last year .

May I ask whereabouts in the country you are, or do you want to avoid stating that in order to avoid specific advice and perhaps conflict?

My DD's school has an intake of 90 in pre-school (three years) and an intake of 150 for primary.

I love big schools. Much more choice of teacher, for starters, so the school can match children's personalities to the class teacher. More streaming - so my child is in an ability group that is matched to hers for key classes.

Do 90% of parents truly worry that their child isn't be stretched enough? I don't, never have.

(Naughty lljkk slaps own wrist for being slattern parent, yet again ).

Mind you, last parent evening for DD, I lsitened for ages, barely saying anything and then her teacher emphatically volunteered "I am TRYING to extend her" -- so I guess that's what she thought I wanted to hear.

Personally I would choose the large 'holistic' school without a second thought. Plenty of 'bright' children don't turn out to be academicly oriented, I want school to help make DC into rounded little people, not just good SAT takers.

Personally I'm a huge fan of big schools, because of the wider peer-base to find your friends, financial advantages (economies of scale) and the facilities/opportunities they can offer. Obviously this depends on how well-run they are, which is the most important variable.

In a book I read (it's a good book but bleurrghh title) it cited research that more able children were happier in settings where they had peers with similar abilities. No claims were made about children's achievement levels or progress, but for me my children's happiness is the most important thing.

This is more likely to occur in a larger school rather than a tiny one, but obviously other factors affect it as well (i.e. how popular/desirable the school is).
When it came to decisions about secondary this is something I had at the forefront of my mind.

It depends on the individual child. Go and visit them and see how it "feels" to you. I believe gut instinct is a really good indicator in such matters.

For DD being in a very small and very traditional school has been wonderful for her, and for her it was definitely the right environment.

Dougal3: Croydon - so anyone with any comments on Croydon schools is welcome to air them.
Nice to hear positive things about larger schools as well because I'm sort of used to hearing that the smaller, the better and I think I'm sort of wondering about that now - in that a child who doesn't fit in with the majority ethos in some way might have a harder time in a smaller school than in a bigger one where there are likely to be more different types of child.

Have you visited the schools? The 'feel' will tell you a lot.

My experience is that a small school has been fantastic for my very clever son (and yes, Greensleeves, they use RP and wear short shorts in winter, to his delight as he hates long trousers). Our experience is that he is positively encouraged to be his rather odd self in this very personal environment. I think my DD would be equally happy in a bigger school, but I am keen for them to be at the same school - and she loves it!

We chose the school because a) we liked the Year Six children who showed us round; b) it had a lovely 'family' feel; and c) we could walk there!

Good luck...

Do the schools begin with G and R by any chance? And if so have you ruled out A?

If so, they are both good schools where a bright child will thrive, but they have such different ethos and I think that you need to be entirely happy with the ethos at the start.

FWIW I loved the feel of R.

I assume by a small school with an intake of 30 you meant S P. My son is there and is very happy. I wanted a small school though. Have a good look around the schools you are interested in and talk to mums/dads.

Small school begins with H, large with O (we are central Croydon). Basically having looked at the map that came with the application pack, our accessible schools are Howard, Oval, Waddon, Kingsley and Park Hill so any comments on any of them would be read with interest.