OK MN jury - so which is better for a bright child, small school or big school, ancient or modern?

[solidgoldbrass]

Am hunting up schools for DS who is 4 now. We have so far looked at 2 very contrasting ones: the first small scale, intake of 30, inclined towards traditional teaching, the second has 3 reception classes (intake of 90), huge great place, modern 'holistic' approach to education...

I don't know what to think. DS is a notably clever kid so I want to give him the best chances and make sure he doesn't get bored by having to go at the pace of the slowest kids etc...

Have only heard about Park Hill as I am south of the borough. Mixed reports.

OK have vague recollection of a similar thread a while ago, where you were very anti-Parish.

Well, going back to my earlier post I think that considering secondary options at this stage is worth doing, especially if you are ruling out church schools. If you have a very bright boy then you might be looking at the Sutton Grammar schools. In which case PH would be the school which tends to have pupils applying for those.

Of the schools you mention I have no knowledge of K at all. PH is usually the most sought after of the other schools with a high proportion of pushy concerned parents. That said it was forced to move from a 2 form to a 4 form entry this year due to the reception place debacle and I know that this has been a concern to parents who aren't sure how the school will cope. Out of interest are they offering 2 or 4 forms for next year's intake? The school does give out more than average amounts of homework, and they don't actively encourage parents in the classroom. However you would have no worries in whether your ds was being pushed or not because you will be surrounded by other hawklike parents ensuring that their dcs are being likewise stretched.

I assume that you have looked at SATS results and Ofsted reports for the schools so you are fully aware of Oval's recent history re Notice to Improve etc. The high staff and pupil turnover has been a concern for a large number of years, so even though the current head is good its location as the closest school to Luna House will mean that children are suddenly added or removed mid-term. Children are very adaptable, but some are more so than others so you need to think whether this would have a positive or adverse impact on your child.

Howard has a good reputation as well as good Ofsteds and I have heard good reports of the teacers. Its intake is mainly from the Duppas estate, which means that some parents will try to avoid it I'm afraid.

I thought that Waddon and Duppas were meant to be being combined at some point soon? I think that the uncertainty about the future has had an adverse affect on staff morale, but that is reported secondhand via supply teacher friends.

Don't know if any of those random snippets/thoughts helps or not!

Yup, Howard has lots of staff who have been there for years (and I liked the headmaster). Oval is making lots of improvements (according to Schoolsnet) - and DS is adaptable so will probably be OK with a bit of a changeover now and again.

I am sort of ruling PH off our list as it is the furthest away of the 4. As for Parish Church, I hear it;s a good school but I have a fundamental objection to state-funded faith schools so will not consider it for DS when there are alternatives.

"with a bit of a changeover now and again". Erm it isn't just a bit of a changeover now and again. Historically it is constant change in classmates every term, every year. And until this last year when the school has just come off its notice to improve the staff have also changed frequently. A very experienced head was recruited to take charge and she has done a good job, but it is always going to be an incredibly challenging environment. The schoolsnet review is obviously written by the school and not parents.

That said I have to say that I am a great believer in having a look round and using instinct as to what will appeal most to your dc. It is just, as you have already noted, not many parents apply for Oval (bearing in mind that when the brochure shows the number of applicants those include all 1st, 2nd and 3rd choices).

Just to doublecheck, the current brochure indicates that Oval still has 60 places, not 90. Have they broken down the classes to 3 classes of 20 rather than 2 of 30?

NO it's 3 of 30 according to the woman who showed us round. Thing is, I do have a kind of funny low-level feeling that DS might thrive in a 'challenging' school (as long as we;re not talking body armour in class or anything). But I am still holding out to choose until we have seen the other 2.

Well that would worry me - the school has been 2 form entry for years, and even the Croydon schools brochure for this year shows that entry is for 60 pupils ie 2 forms. So if the person showing you around doesn't know the number of classes, what else did they tell you that may not be true? Or was it just last year's reception that was bumped to 3 form (similar to PH goign to 4 form).

I'm assuming that something about the visit must have impressed you. I'm afraid that it has been the school that most people have tried to avoid for quite a while (when I was looking for ds1 it was on its 4th head teacher in 5 years or so). But I think that if you like the school and value its ethos then that is important and will help your son to thrive there.

It is only fair to confess that I moved house specifically to avoid the school but that was before the current head came on board.

The only other comment I would make is that if it ended up being a close call between this and say Howard or Park Hill, then it will be easier to start in the oversubscribed school and move to Oval if you have regrets than vice versa.

I do have sympathies in terms of finding that schools vary so much in approach to ethos and structure. I had assumed that5 the National Curriculum would almost enforce an identikit rollout of teaching across different schools, but that is definitely not the case. Even things such as the adult:pupil ratios varies widely in schools locally. I do think that the character of the head teacher is vitally importnat as they play a key role in how the school is managed, so if all things are equal I would take soundings as to how good the current heads are and how long they are likely to stay there. Eg with both Park Hill and Waddon/Duppas there is likely to be a merger and only one head will remain.

Ladymuck I really do appreciate your comments. I'm also aware that to an extent it's going to be out of my hands anyway (he will get sent to the first school that has a place for him) - mind you, I wouldn't be happy about an idendikit rollout of teaching anyway as I don't think a heavily conformist environment is good for any child let alone mine (who has genes for arrogance/argumentativeness/doing own thing on both sides...). I did like both schools but perhaps partly got a good impression of OVal because our look-round involved going into the reception classes, and the teacher who showed us round took to DS and chatted to him - whereas at Howard we got a talk from the headmaster which was more aimed at the parents than the DC. THough the headmaster was very nice and didn't mind that DS was cavorting and chattering through most of the talk (my friend is a primary school head - though nowhere near Croydon - and she advised me to take DS with me to look at schools and take notice of what the staff said and did with him as well as how they talked to parents).