What are dinner ladies for? Sorry, rambling!

[lljkk]

I'm a foreigner, so be kind to me, please...

That thread about the lad with reflux not eating any lunch, and a recent experience with DS got me thinking. I'm sure there was no such thing as dinner ladies when I was a child, where I grew up. We had lunch time supervisers, but they were there to ensure order, not to monitor who ate or didn't eat, etc.

So, for instance, DC not allowed to swap food at lunch times with other kids (but I did as a child). DS currently only takes half a sandwich to school and an apple juice. He asked to only have the apple juice and next morning I forgot his sarnie, so I laughed and said "I guess you get what you wanted!"

Dinner lady rang me up astonished he only had apple juice, I tried to explain, DS was quite happy with his lunch, understand, it was just dinner lady having a tizz about it. Since then apparently she hovers over DS to make sure he eats his sarnie. This is a good thing because he just wants to play not eat, but it just seems SO CONTROLLING compared to my school lunchtime experiences. And Remember how Ellen McArthur only saved up enough to buy her first boat by scrimping apples and saving her dinner money? She couldn't do it today, could she?

Anyway, I don't get it, tell me what dinner ladies are for?

I think any school would be concerned if a child was coming to school with nothing to eat for lunch. How do you expect your DS to concentrate on his lessons on an empty stomach?

Dinner ladies are "lunchtime supervisors". When I was growing up there were two lost of dinner ladies - the cooks and the ones who supervised in the hall and playground. I don't think it is much different now.

And really YABU just to send your DS with juice, and not mention to anyone that you had forgotten his sandwich. Surely he would be rather hungry in the afternoon? OTOH there is lots of pressure about healthy eating in schools that the dinner ladies seem to be pushed into policing.

It was an accident on my part, LGP, he had been coming home with the sandwich uneaten quite often before that, so I knew he'd survive that one day. He came out in a good mood - he has snacks at morning breaktime, btw.

But see, that's what I don't get -- why does the school monitor so closely what and how much they eat? Only they don't obviously, as dinner lady hadn't clocked how little DS was eating prior to the day he actually didn't even have a sarnie in his lunchbox. It was another child who went and told her, not DS. I had a very funny replay of the dinner lady's consternation from one of DS's friends the next day, in fact.

I never hover over DC at home and 'make' them eat, is that the norm for most people, then? Hence why the dinner lady is expected to do same job?

Ellen could do it today as senior school, where many are given money to buy food in the school. What they buy and how much they spend is down to them. So if they go without food to save the money its between the child and the parents IMHO.

With Younger children, Dinner ladies are there to supervise the children during eating and play time. They encourage all children to eat a healthy meal at lunch time for many reasons. (I am sure I dont need to list the reasons, do I?)

Most school have a range of lunch habits from the just 1 apple lunch to the full banquet packed into a lunch box.

How old is your DS?

It does seem bizarre not to care that your DS does not have any lunch.

DS is 9, yr4. Of course I care, this is why when DS asked to only have apple juice I said "No!, even if you don't eat your sandwich, I would rather you had the choice to eat it if you changed your mind". But (long story) his sarnie didn't get in his bag that partic day. And he was SO insistent about not wanting it that I thought, "Okay, this one day, you'll see what it's like".

Dinner lady thought I was as completely barmy as you all obviously do, LOL.

But then I have never understood people who get het up about their children eating a prescribed amount.

We had a boy at school with food issues and only ate 1 thing (1 unhealthy item) for lunch everyday.
He is now getting help with this but prior to this his parents spoke to the school and explained the situation. The Dinners ladies were told of his situation and so they didnt make a further issue out of it.

Acutally I assumed he was younger, more like 4 or 5. It sounds like he doesn't have a very big appetite if he just has half a sandwich which he doesn't always bother eating at age 9.

Children can't concentrate and fully take part in all activites if they are hungry.

Most children would rather not stop playing to eat but then again most would rather play than bathe or go to bed. but I, personally wouldn't encourage that sort of behavior.

IME Most children are "starving" by lunch time, especially when at school.

FGS! I was a dinner lady in an infants school with 250 kids, so it is not always poss to check everyones lunchbox/plate. But there were some kids who stood out - the ones who turn up with a packet of pringles and some squash, or the one who had cold turkey dinosaurs and beans. We can only monitor what they eat.
I'm amazed at your 'breezy' tone OP. To expect a child (or adult) to go from breakfat till 3 on juice and a snack (like what? The governmental apple?) is gobsmacking.

at governmental apple. Actually I thought they only provided fruit until age 7.

I think there is more to this than meets the eye.

Perhaps he is on medication that suppresses appetite, perhaps he is filling up at break time, or perhaps he is being teased about something at lunch time!

At our school we try to check that children are eating but tbh at age 9 they should be capable of eating without someone checking on them. The benfits of a healthy lunch is something all children know about. They are taught about at school, even if they are not encouraged at home.

Sorry missed the age 9 bit. Still a bit confused about the snack tho - my junior school dc don't get the oppertunity to eat snacks in the day.

I know captainmummy I originally assumed he was much younger as well.

I went on a school trip with DS1 (Y1) class yesterday and part of the role at lunchtime was ensuring they ate they're lunch and the savoury before the sweet

Regardless of your dc's age, I'm quite at any child not having any lunch, or even just a sandwich to be honest. Thats nothing compared to what my dc's (4 and 6) have for lunch.

Snack=2-3 mini pizzas at morning break, I haven't seen them, so I don't know what they look like (how big).
Of course I'm relaxed, what am I supposed to do? He is happy with a small lunch, he wants to get out and play as soon as possible, there is not a problem (imo).

The thread wasn't supposed to be about my son's lunch, it was supposed to be about the role of dinner ladies. I don't understand in the other thread what the parent expects school to do for her son (with a reflux problem). But then, I still don't quite understand what duties dinner ladies should have, maybe.

The inconsistency of advice on MN drives me crazy. There was a thread about a preschooler who refused to eat breakfast, and all replies said "Oh well, if he won't eat, he'll just have to go hungry and wait until morning snack at nursery".

So it's okay to let a 3yo decide about eating breakfast, but not ok to let a 9yo decide how big his lunch should be?

(Thunks head on table).

I think Ellen McArther was 8yo when she started scrimping apples rather than buy hot dinners, btw, very much still a primary school!

I kind of like how dinner ladies are there to cut up the meat or open banans and crisp packets.

I can't remember anyone inspecting my lunch when I was in primary school. I remember hating the meat and gravy, though.

I have helped out at lunch time and generally I don't notice exactly what or how many items a child has in their lunchbox. If they came to school with nothing, I would be shocked and the teacher would telephone the parent to check that it is ok to offer them some of our lunch. Unless the child is ill they need to eat at lunch time! How can you expect them to concentrate otherwise?

lljkk - i was a dinner lady (in an infant school) and it's much more than just watching what they eat. Some dc are picky eaters, some need lots of food. Some need stuff cutting up, others need yoghurts opening. With 250 kids we couldn't spoon-feed them all. And then after eating we supervise play. I had a little satelite of hand-holders, that was my fav bit of the job.

Least fav was persuading them to eat if they didn't want to. And we had some that turned up with a lunchbox so full of stuff I would have trouble eating it all in the half-hour - it always amazed me that parents would pack stuff that the child wouldn't eat.

lljkk, we must have grown up in different foreign countries. My childhood in Sweden was presided over by enormous beetle-browed dinner ladies that stood over you until you had cleared every last scrap. School dinners were free, but there was no choice and no option of bringing in sandwiches.

The idea was that you couldn't do good work unless you were eating properly.

lljkk, has your ds always had a small lunch?
I ask because my dd began taking less and less to school and I found out that it was for the following reasons. If she took things not considered healthy by the dinner staff then she was given a talk about bringing something else. So we went through a phase of her taking other things. But she didn't really want to eat them so she would try to leave them. This resulted in her being 'encouraged' to eat all her lunch even though she didn't want it.
I finally went into school to discuss it when I discovered her emptying her lunchbox before she went to school and attempting to go into school with only a custard cream and a bottle of water. She said she could eat the custard cream quickly and tell the dinner staff that she had eaten all her lunch. She was 10yo and before this we had never had any problems with her eating habits. She had a good diet and knew when she was full.
After a chat with the school we went back to her normal lunch and nobody bothered her again.

I also agree with you that a child doesn't necessarilly suffer for not having a lunch occasionally. Particularly if they've had a good breakfast. In holiday time, mine have gone all day without anything, only asking after food around teatime. But I would check that there's no reason other than that he doesn't feel hungry that your ds doesn't want to take in lunch.

I am also astonished that your son had apple juice for lunch and would not think the dinner lady was 'getting in a tizz' but grateful for her concern!

I would also think that someone who works in a school might have some sort of responsiblity towards a childs welfare.

Obviously your son is 9 so staff should know him quite well, but the issue of no lunch should be brought up with the parent. You hear about kids who are neglected etc. and not given any lunch.

Not that I am suggesting that at all op, and I hope I have not offended you as you say, he has not eaten his lunch before and noone even noticed. My dd went through a phase of not eating her lunch, because she wanted to play,and noone noticed either. She was only in reception and this went on for two weeks. I had to eventually bring it up with the school.

I would hope, after all the child neglect cases you hear about, that if a child wasn't getting any lunch that someone in school would notice. Afterall, the school has a duty of care towards each child that goes to it.

Dinner ladies don't hover over one child, too many children and things to do, but I am sure the fact that he had nothing to eat would attract their attention. They are there to supervise lunch and suprisingly they expect kids to actually have lunch.

Now I am very forgetfull and there has been more than one occasion I have forgotton to make up a pack lunch or make it up and forget to give it to them, thanks to the dinner ladies DC always get a school lunch in those circumstances and a note home to say what I owe, I am very grateful for that as I would hate to think my child had no lunch, or at least the option of a lunch.

Why didn't you put him on school dinners? You would hover over him at home to make sure he ate, so they are just doing the same really. Dd always has school dinners as I'm worried my packed lunches wouldn't be gourmet enough

I'm still a bit confused by the 'snack' - my junior school kids are not alloed to snack at break time! Certainly not on mini-pizzas. Where does he get them? They are surely not provided by the school - they wouldnt meet the fat-and-sugar guidelines (snoooze) laid down. So does he take them with him?