Reception Parent's Evening - negative teacher

[traceybath]

So had DS's first parent's evening last week. He started reception in september and was 4 in August.

Teacher new to the school and only a couple of year's experience.

So i've never been to a parent's evening before so not sure if this is the usual format.

She basically gave very little positive feedback. Her comments were:

• he's very young (well yes he's just 4)
• he's very enthusiastic (with eye rolling)
• he's' bossy
• he has poor pen control (wouldn't agree with that one actually)
• not good at listening
• not great at sharing/taking turns

When i bascically pushed to try and get at least one positive comment she concluded that he was sweet but had a lot of growing up to do.

No mention made of him being kind which the TA has said to me several times.

I came out feeling like i wanted to cry to be honest.

So is this how parent's evenings usually occur? I'd have thought she could have started with something positive then discussed areas he needed to work on.

She just seemed to want to say 'well he's an august boy' to every question i asked.

Just to clarify it was the comment that he's enthusiastic that was accompanied by eye-rolling. Which i do think turned a positive work into a negative.

But anyway - i took twiglett's advice way back and have just decided to see how things go and be laidback and supportive .

I would say that it is more than 10 hours a day for 6 days a week-which is why I do part time. I think a job should allow you to have a life! I am not surprised that Melissa is cheesed off! If you talk to teachers, most like the actual teaching-they don't like what goes with it. I reckon that every hour in the classroom needs one hour outside it. A lot of the holiday is swallowed up with preparation. I think reception is the hardest year of all.

Many people work long hours with great responsibility for others and not all are in jobs for life in a strongly unionised environments. This at least ensures some protection for working rights.

I'm not having a go as I think teachers do a tremendously tough job and deserve great respect. Many are truly committed to their job and see it as a vocation.

But many are clearly very stressed and this affects their outlook. It means they can't see the wood for the trees.

I was a criminal lawyer for 8 years. Working 48 weeks of the year, 60 hours a week, often 16 hour duty shifts overnight and (before anyone says it) the pay was crap! My job was often part social worker, psychologist,child minder etc but that was the job.

So, yes, teaching is stressful and it shouldn't be but so are lots of other jobs. This isn't an excuse to tar all parents with the same brush or communicate ineffectively and I think all the poster was saying is that there could have been better quality communication!

A lot of people work long hours and are on call 24/7 (as I am) and have reception aged children.

My ds was labelled by his teacher as stubborn and uncooperative within 2 weeks of starting in reception. Not a description I recognised at all and consequently I was completely clueless when asked by the teacher for ways of handling him. He wasn't like that at home or at his nursery. We eventually got to the bottom of the issue and his behaviour changed accordingly. It wouldn't have done if his teacher had pre-conceived notions of how horrible four year olds are!

Okay. So Melissa - why don't primary teachers say:

'Your child doesn't do what he's told'

Why oh why do they say 'He doesn't listen well' because if someone says that to me, I think 'Huh? Do you mean he doesn't understand you.'

Teacher double-speak takes a while to get used to. 'Enthusiastic' or 'lively' tends to mean 'completely out of control and can't sit on his bum' I think.

Teacher sounds like she did half double-speak TB. I think your course of thinking is exactly right. Sometimes these events don't go well, because the teacher seems to be on the back foot but you don't quite no why.

know why fgs

Teacher use teacher double speak to other teachers! If I go in on supply and am told 'you have one or two lively characters in the class', I know exactly what sort of day I am in for! I suppose it is quite nice that they don't label them 'naughty' and they don't name them-at least they start with a clean slate!

Sorry-I should proof read- put an s on the first word!

AbbeyA, I was so pleased to read your posts. Too true, I think the same thing, every hour you are with the kids is an hour of extra work outside of the classroom. I think the biggest thing with teaching and being a teacher is that you never get time off from it. I do not know of a single teacher who does not spend at least one full day of every weekend prepping for the upcoming week, or their evening marking all their childrens work from the day. I teach 14 subjects in a week, times that by 30 children and that means I am marking and assessing 420 pieces of work every week (at least) and after it has been marking, it then has to be filed, or displayed. I am not looking for pity, but I think teachers often get a bum rap where parents think that we only work when their child is in the classroom. I have even been called a glorified babysitter by a parent. I think another thing about teaching is that you are constantly "on". You cannot have a bad day when you have 30 faces looking at you on the carpet. You cannot be sad or in a bad mood, or even have a toilet break when you need one. My hours between 9 and 4 are dictated by my pupils needs, completely, not my own at all.
Anyway, this is not the point of this post, and I am totally getting off track. I agree that teachers do sometimes forget that parents do not understand "teacher speak" and that means that we do need to remind ourselves of that, but parents also can ask questions, and clarify what is said to them. If you do not understand what is being said to you by your childs teacher, then ask!
All teachers should be giving at least one piece of feedback about your child in the parent meeting, there is no excuse not to. I do not know what time your appt was, but sometimes speaking from experience when you have one of the last appointments in the evening, it means that teacher has been at work for at least 12 hours, many of them with 5 minute stops here and there (I know I definately do not get more than a 5 minute break in a day, I work through my lunch prepping for the afternoon session) so not that it is an excuse, but I think parents sometimes can forget that we are tired, it has been a long day and the last thing we want to be doing is sitting there at 8 at night discussing your childs behaviour issues, but it is in our job description so we have to do it.
In reference to your comment clickclack, I actually do love my job, I love the children in my class, everyday is different and every child brings their own charisma to the classroom to make it an exciting environment. But what I am sick of is dealing with parents who spend their time whining about their child in one way or another. In my school we all know who the parents are that none of the staff can stand, because they are constantly complaining about one thing or another. It just gets old after a while, and unfortunately human nature causes me to the more the parents whines and whinges and complains the LESS likely I am to do what it is that they want. If you treat me with respect and have an open communication relationship with me, then I am more likely to go out of my way to help your child, otherwise I will do the bare minimum and unfortunately it is your child who will suffer the consequences. I had a parent like this last year, and everyone in the school could not stand her, even the head. She was in the school office everyday with a complaint about the most innane things. You could hear people say "oh lord, she is here again". So thats my only point, is to think about how you are coming across to the teachers and staff, and how that might ultimately hinder your child instead of help them. Pushy parents are usually the ones who the teachers avoid, and they also avoid helping their child as well.
And I just need to add one more thing, totally irrelevant to the topic of this post, but don't ever tell the teacher that your child needs to change to the next reading band, because that will make the teacher keep them on the band even longer, based on principal. You would be amazed how many notes from parents telling me they are ready to progress to the next reading level. Just a bit of teacher speak advice for all of you!

sorry, meant to say all teachers should be giving at least one piece of positive feedback in a parent open evening meeting.

I can tell that you are a dedicated teacher, melissa-I am not surprised that you want to let off steam! I find the reception stage the most difficult and yet people think it is a doddle because after all they 'just play'-don't they!
I did a year full time recently with a junior class and I was on the verge of tears the whole time-it was all too much! When ever I mention the work load to other teachers they all say the same phrase : "tell me about it"!
I did a part time job recently and my DH couldn't understand why mornings only meant working all day. He gave up complaining because it caused rows, he just rolled his eyes a lot! He works long hours but when he gets home his time is his own.
I hadn't realised until I came onto mumsnet that people are obsessed with reading schemes and ORT in particular!
I think that people should realise that teachers don't dislike their pupils, they love the teaching part they just dislike the rest!
I have pointed out to some of the more precious parents, on here, who constantly complain that they are making themselves the parent everyone avoids, and the staff room joke!
Most parents are lovely-I hasten to add, I particularly like those who help in the classroom!

"...don't ever tell the teacher that your child needs to change to the next reading band, because that will make the teacher keep them on the band even longer, based on principal"

What educational principle would that be then?

Spite? I know best, don't ever challenge my authority? The teachers doctrine of infallibity?

'Principle'
'Definitely'

If you are teaching children, it's important to teach them correctly.

I agree with Debs40. What kind of principle is it that keeps a child on a reading band just because their parent has questioned it? Parents, naturally, spend much more time with their individual child than the teacher can; they might actually have a better idea, in some instances, of what their child is capable of.

...And breath Melissa!

I think we, as teachers, do need to think about what we want the desired outcome to be and to give consideration to parents' feelings. I've had parents cry over me...for both good and bad comments!

I have the first of the years' parents' evening in a few weeks; I will be seeing the school's no 1 nightmare parent, who has failed to come to terms with state school and has unrealistic expectations of what I will do for her ds. My instinct is to cut her off at the knees as she'll have a long list of complaints, delivered in a carrying voice, but what will that achieve?

Can completely understand your disappointment with your dc's feedback TraceyBath, the teacher has got fixated about what she's got to focus on next with dc, and not your dc's progress.

I don't think you can have it both ways as a teacher can you?

You can't be mean to parents who suggest that their child is ready to move on - bare in mind they probably have heard their child read more than you have. Their suggestion might not always be pushy, it might also be appropriate and helpful.

And then expect the parent to take responsibility for the fact that you are not expressing yourself clearly and speaking in double teacher talk.

You want the parent to say 'whatever do you mean he doesn't listen well? What does that mean?' but not 'he's finding this book easy to read, as he has found all the books for the last month easy to read.'

Teachers can be a bit mystifying sometimes.

AbbeyA, I am thankful that you and I are totally on the same page here, because so many others so are not!
First of all, principle was a typo, but thanks for pointing it out!
In reference to the reading levels, just because your child can read the words, does not mean that they are ready for the next band. Reading requires fluency, expression and recognition of puntuation, but parents think, well they can read the word, so naturally they can read and are ready for the next level.
Its interesting that parents have decided that they have a teaching degree. I went to university for 5 years to get a teaching degree, but parents think that they have a child, so that entitles them to tell me how to do my job. If you are a banker, lawyer, doctor, dentist do you clients or patients come and tell you actually you need to do it this way because I know more than you do because I spend more time with myself. If you do do that, then you are fairly ignorant and do not respect the educational process as a whole regardless of the vocation.
During term time, I spend more waking hours with your child in a week than a parent does. Its amazing how many parents tell me "well they can do it at home". Ok, then why can't they do it at school then? I am not arguing the fact that they may be able to spell a word correctly when it is a 1-1 atmosphere and limited to no other distractions around them, but thats not what the real world is about. I do not have the time to sit with each child for 15 minutes while we sound out each word in a book indivudally. So, if you know your child best, and you know what is best for them educationally, then why don't you educate them at home?
I do not quite understand how the comment "he does not listen well" is "teacher talk". How can that comment be any more self explanatory?
I think what it comes down to, is teachers are just generally fed up with parents complaints, if you can do it better, do it yourself! It is amazing really, that the parents who complain are the ones who never volunteer to spend a day in the classroom. You should try it, you might have a totally different attitude at the end of the day! If not, well then, at least you will then legitimately have something to complain about!

Some parents might think that reading the words is enough. Others might have read the Rose Report into the teaching of reading, have volunteered for several years in primary schools, have taught their own child/ren to read and have become rather knowledgeable about the subject. Just because you haven't trained as a doctor or a lawyer or a teacher doesn't mean you know nothing.

You might spend more waking hours in the company of my child than I do in term time, but you don't probably spend as many hours engaged in one-on-one activity.

I'm sure you are, in real life, open to parents' suggestions and observations. In my experience, the teachers with whom we have had the most productive relationships have been those who say, "So tell me more about his reading. How long has he been reading for? What does he like to read? Do you think this would be too difficult for him?"

Well to go off on a tangent slightly, my sister who used to be a secondary school teacher and now works in primary schools as an SEN co-ordinator says (only slighly tongue in cheek) that primary school teachers are the closest she has seen to legal slavery in our society.

I personally think trying to teach a class full of 4/5 years olds to read/write etc is quite frankly a nightmare task. The fact is that many of these children aren't really ready for school, so of course they don't listen. The whole situation is ripe for creating conflict

Parents- My child is still young the teacher isn't helping et, how can she/he be so awful about my child etc.

Teacher - Well they have to teach their children how to listen/co-operate, take turns etc (show me any 4 year old who does all those things all the time and I'll show you a robot), I can't do it all

Both of these sorts of arguments have a point but the fundamental fact is that a 4 year old shouldn't be in school. Blaming each other for the difficulties experienced as a result of forcing 4 year olds into school is the only option left to those of us powerless to do anything about this ludicrous piece of legislation.

singersgirl, you will notice, I never said parents do not know anything, of course they do. I was just stating that if you are going to demand that something happened (such as a change in reading level bands for example) then you need to know what your talking about, and not just tell me that your child reads brilliantly at home, and their books are too easy for them when it is obvious this is not the case in the classroom. So many parents tell me how brilliant their ds or dd is at home, but I just find it interesting that come being in the classroom they cannot do any of the things the parent said they can.
Lazycow, I entirely agree with you, 4 year olds are way too young for full day school. Most of the other european countries do not have children in full time school until they are 6 which makes much more sense. I am actually a Canadian trained teacher teaching in England, and at home, our kids do not start full days until 6 either, they are in junior and senior kindergarten from 4-6 yrs which is only halfday, this is also the case in Scandinavia which has some of the top educational outcomes in the world.

singersgirl, I completely agree with your comment about having an open relationship with parents and have good communication with them, that is the most fundamental part, because in the end, you have the same common interest...the pupil which you share for the school year. My only point, which it always has been, is for parents not to be so demanding and full of complaints when they are not willing to do anything about it. There are fantastic parents out there, ones who are interested in their education and want to work together with the teacher to further their child along the educational path, but then there are parents who are full of complaints and want to spend their time telling me how to do my job, so my point is, if you think you can do it better, then do it yourself!
Your completely right, you 100 percent spend more one to one time with your child, thats an obvious given and thats why the work at home is so important because I am not able to give your child the individual attention that they need, it is simply not possible so it is a parents responsibility to do their share and work with their child at home. You would be amazed, or perhaps you would not, by how many parents have the expectation "you are the teacher, its your job to teach them to behave, sit down, read, write and do maths." It is my job to lay the foundation for these areas, but without a parents help, that child is not going to progress with just the inschool practice. There are so many great parents who recognize that, but as with anything, there is a small group of them who tar it for the rest, they have that expectation, and it is so frustrating, because it is their child who ends up suffering, it is their child who is the one who ends up falling through the cracks of the education system as they make their way through it.

Melissa, I have the utmost respect for teachers as I can see that it is an incredibly demanding job; my mum was a primary school teacher for many years. I do volunteer in school and I'm always exhausted after a few hours on a school trip, so really I'm not knocking teachers at all.

I think on message boards it's very easy for things to seem black or white, or for opinions to come out more forcefully than intended. So no offence taken, I hope, if I sounded a bit pompous at any point.

I just have to say that I am just coming up to my first parents evening with a Reception class in my first year of teaching and i am concerned over it. It is hard for everybody involved and i think it is sad that people in the above posts automatically assume young or inexperienced teachers are lacking in some way. I have an excellent relationship with 99% of my parents. They are always able to pop in and talk to me if needed. I actually think newly qualified teachers get a lot of stick which is very unjust in most cases. I am very enthusiastic, i love my job, and i am keen to involve parents as much as possible. I honestly dont believe parents have a clue how much effort goes into the preparing side of teaching. I was in school 6 weeks of the Summer holidays preparing- not that i begrudge it-im just explaining. I have so many parents say to me 9-3 is a lovely short day but i can guarantee i will be there 7.30-6 minimum every day. I also think teachers need to be a little more understanding when it comes to parents. They have busy days too with younger siblings, work etc and we need to take that into account. I do agree mainly with Melissa and Abbey A. I understand that the parents feel upset when they hear mainly negative things but please bear in mind how little positive we hear too. It is very rare a parent says that a display looks lovely or their child had a nice day etc.
To sum up!!! PLease dont stereotype young teachers-its very insulting. There are two sides to every coin and i understand each persons point of view. The most important thing is to keep the communication going between you and your child and their teacher. It is so important.
Finally don't bother spell checking or correcting my post-it is really childish-I have better things to do with my time.

Henna146 I appreciate your post however you need to understand how many parents feel about their children starting school. My DD started school last year, her teacher was newly qualified - and it showed - bit time. OK perhaps many parents do stereotype young teachers however in my experience the teaching profession hasn't kept pace with the knowledge, understanding and expectations that parents have. Please also bear in mind that many parents are sick to the back teeth of their very young children being scored and tested all the time.

Henna...good for you, how did your open evening go? I hope it was successful! Don't take to heart what others say about young NQT's, everyone has to start somewhere, and even parents when they have their first child are doing it by trial and error.
Aintnomountainhighenough, what exactly do you mean by "however in my experience the teaching profession hasn't kept pace with the knowledge, understanding and expectations that parents have"? I find it a very interesting statement to make. Keep in mind that many teachers are also parents. Secondly, if you have issue with your child being "scored and tested all the time" then you need to talk to your government, they make the rules, not the teachers, we are the ones who just do as we are told, whether we agree with it or not.

What Melissa said.