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Primary education

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Original poster

going to the lavatory in primary school

29 replies

maggiemoggins · 07/10/2008 11:02

The new teacher will not let you go to the lavatory during class time. At all. but if you must, then you lose "Golden Time". In my view this is being punished for answering the calls of nature and there are many implications. Golden Time is 20 minutes on a Friday in which you can do anything at all in the classroom and is much loved by all. Its a class of 9 year olds. I expect it is a bit annoying to have your teaching party piece interrupted but if the children are working in groups or on their own, I don't see the problem. Any views on the matter would be appreciated before I take it up with the school.

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DaisySteiner · 07/10/2008 11:03

Seems a bit harsh but I'd probably want to hear the teacher's side before going in all guns blazing.

stealthsquiggle · 07/10/2008 11:06

Do they get sent to the loo at regular intervals between classes though? DS's school have the same system (no going to the loo during class, get sent at intervals) but I have not heard tell of anyone losing a minute for being desperate.

imaginaryfriend · 07/10/2008 12:54

What if they've got an upset tummy?! I can imagine it would be a problem if children were 'skiving' by going to the toilet but if they genuinely need to go this seems mean.

roisin · 07/10/2008 17:32

I completely approve of this policy. They are 9 years old, not 3 fgs! At this age their pelvic floor should be the strongest ever, there is no physiological reason why they should not be able to hold on.

ds2's yr2 teacher did not allow children to go to the toilet during lessons, and that worked no problem. Teachers are usually skilled at spotting when someone is genuinely desperate.

During the day they have two playtimes plus a long lunchbreak - plenty of time to go to the toilet then. Usually it's only 1.5-2 hrs between toilet opportunities. It is not unreasonable to hold on for this length of time, and is a skill they will have to learn soon if they haven't already.

At most secondary schools teachers will not let students out of lessons at all.

madlentileater · 07/10/2008 17:36

humiliating and unnecessary.

cornsilk · 07/10/2008 17:36

It maybe what the teacher has intimated, but as Rosin says teachers usually use this 'rule' with discretion. It is a massive pain when chn think they can just wander off to the loo whenever they feel like it, as there is always a minority that uses it as an excuse to mess about. Ask any primary school caretaker about the joys of cleaning toilets stuffed with pens, paper towels, loo roll...

cory · 07/10/2008 19:02

In our local area, you are supposed to be able to wait for breaks once you reach Juniors (i.e. age 7); however, any child with a known problem will get a toilet pass so it's not actually that much of a problem.

pointydog · 07/10/2008 19:13

Will your dc not be able to restrict toilet visits to break times only? The majority of children this age can. If there is a problem, send a note in.

'teaching party piece' sound spatronising.

Children asking to go to the toilet regularly is far more disruptive to learning and teaching than you make out.

mumto2andnomore · 07/10/2008 20:03

Sounds too harsh to me.

roisin · 07/10/2008 20:19

There are plenty of children who will say "I need the toilet" when they actually mean "I'm finding this work difficult and don't want to persevere" or "I'm rather bored with this and fancy an excuse for a walk around".

If the teacher says yes to one child going to the loo, then half a dozen more will want to go immediately too.

It really is far better for them to get into a routine that they go to the toilet at breaktimes, then lessons don't get disrupted.

bozza · 07/10/2008 20:25

agree with roisin. Bear in mind that the vast majority of 9yos have stronger pelvic floors than their mothers! So unless there is a medical reason (in which case the parents should approach the school and a discreet exemption be made) I think it is perfectly reasonable. I am sure it would not be a problem to my 4yo.

MadBadandDangerousToKnow · 07/10/2008 22:52

I'm with roisin on this one.

ingles2 · 07/10/2008 22:56

I too agree with roisin. And surely if they have an upset tummy they shouldn't be in school?

ja9 · 07/10/2008 22:59

iSN'T THIS AGAINST CHILDREN'S RIGHTS. oops caps.

I'm sure it is.

At the school i teach at we have a policy that a child does not need to ask permission. They just go. We have systems in place so we know there are only a certain number away at any one time and who they are. We train the children so that they don't go during 'direct teaching' time.

MrsBates · 07/10/2008 23:05

I wasn't allowed to go during a lesson once when I was 8 and wet myself standing in the line to go out of the class for lunch. Very humiliating and my mother was furious ,as I would be. A routine is good but you wouldn't tell an adult they are not allowed to use the loo when they need it so if a child seems desperate let them go. My DD had a bladder infection recently and I had a word with her teacher who was fine about her going more frequently.

By the way - I was a cleaner in the toilets of a primary school for two years so concur with cornsilk re the mess. I would still prefer that to cleaning the floor around a humiliated child in the classroom though.

kid · 07/10/2008 23:12

I work in a school (8-9 year olds) and the rule is, if they need to use the toilet during classtime, they give back 5 minutes of their playtime (which is when they should be using the toilet anyway)

Its amazing how many children don't need the toilet afterall when they realise they will lose some playtime!
Of course anyone with a medical reason for needing the toilet can go during class time without losing any playtime.

cory · 08/10/2008 08:25

MrsBates on Tue 07-Oct-08 23:05:47
" A routine is good but you wouldn't tell an adult they are not allowed to use the loo when they need it so if a child seems desperate let them go"

You mean you'd find it acceptable if the train driver stopped the train between stations to go to the loo? Or the brain surgeon left your skull open while he popped out for a wee? Loads of people are in jobs where they can't do this. I bet the primary school teacher herself can't just pop out when she needs to. I'm a university lecturer myself and I couldn't suddenly interrupt my lecture and leave the students sitting there while I attended to the calls of nature. I always go to the loo before a double lecture to make sure I won't be caught short. I would take a dim view of any student who did not take the same precaution.

Of course, it's a shame that you had that awful experience and the teacher should have seen that it was a genuine emergency. But that doesn't mean she should let everybody go who hasn't got an emergency. Often it is the case that the child simply can't be bothered to go at breaktime.

In all schools my dc's have attended it's really easy to get a toilet slip if you have genuine reasons- my dd is mildly incontinent as a result of her condition and that's never been a problem.

So I'm all for a rule- with exceptions as appropriate.

SaintRiven · 08/10/2008 08:30

human beings should be able to asnwer the call of nature without some teacher refusing them.

cory · 08/10/2008 09:33

Riven, a fair proportion of human beings have jobs. They can't suddenly leave a customer standing, interrupt a business meeting, stop the taxi, leave a queue at the supermarket till, leave a crying patient, stop an operation in order to answer the calls of nature. Learning to plan these things is an important part of preparing for future life in the workplace, so it's something I want my dc's taught.

I would like it done sensitively and only with children old enough.

But if you get into your twenties and still insist (without medical reasons) that it is a human right to answer the call of nature whenever you like, then that's going to cut you off from an awful lot of jobs.

Littlefish · 08/10/2008 09:55

Notwithstanding any children with bladder/bowel difficulties etc. then as long as a child goes to the loo before lessons start, at playtime and lunchtime, then the maximum amount of time between opportunities to go is about 2 hours. At 9, I would certainly expect children to be able to manage this. In fact, from about yr 2, I start reminding the children to go at breaktimes etc. and will not let them go during the main teaching focus "the teaching party piece as you so patronisingly call it. In yr 2 (aged 6/7) they are usually allowed to go once we are into the group work unless they are the group I am focussing on. Once they reach Key Stage 2, then it is not unreasonable to restrict the times they can go.

As others have said, I can also spot a child who genuinely needs to go and will, therefore go, compared with a child who is using it as a delaying/avoidance tactic.

For me, when they do go to the loo, it's not about the children asking "permission" to go, it's about them letting me know that they are leaving the classroom so that I know where all the children in my care are, at any point in the day.

MrsBates · 08/10/2008 21:57

Cory - I agree with you - that's pretty much what I was saying - a routine is better but if they seem genuine let them go. Who knows, for example, when a bladder infection might strike - or whatever. But most experienced teachers who know their class could tell the difference. My teacher just happened to be a twat.

Although - brain surgery can take a while - presumably some surgeons DO sometimes nip out for a wee - but they rarely work alone.

MrsBates · 08/10/2008 21:58

Actually - my husband is on the phone to a brain surgeon now - a friend advising on my sister in laws brain tumor. I'll ask.

SmugColditz · 08/10/2008 22:01

holding urine past the point of urge can cause kidney reflux and scarring.

Just because you CAN hold your bladder does not mean you SHOULD hold your bladder. The rate of UTIs in the caring professions - those who cannot go when they need to - is huge, compared to the general polulation

robinpud · 08/10/2008 22:03

I think I would check exactly what the teacher has said. Any sensible person would be encouraging children to use the toilets at the allocated time rather than going whenever they feel the need. I'm sure that is what is meant.

KatyMac · 08/10/2008 22:05

I do chose the work I do based on whether or not I can go to the loo when I need to

Having a bladder/bowel condition makes me very certain that any child should be allowed to go when they need to

I also have agonies about children not drinking enough (or frequently enough) during the day

However I would hope that children could last upto an hour - they need to be reminded to go in breaks

Tricky

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