Just interested in Mumsnetters opinions about a conversation heard in DS's school

[Bowddee]

My DS's TA was standing at the classroom door, ticking off the kids as they went in as they seemed to be making sure all parents had signed consent forms for school trips.

One little lad goes in...

TA - ahh, we haven't had a consent form from you.

Dad - no, we don't want X taken on school trips.

TA - oh yes, we need to talk about that. We can't allow children to stay in school when we're out on trips.

Dad - That won't be a problem, we can keep him home on those days.

TA - That would be an unauthorised absence.

2 things struck me as odd-

1. I feel sorry for the poor little lad being left out of trips.

1. Can the school really give no alternative?

I'm just interested to know what other people think.

why should the school provide an alternative?

Trips are, on the whole, educational. So the children who go on the trip will then come back and some of their work will be based on the things they saw/learned on the trip.

PTA's are there to help fund where parents cannot afford to pay so that's not a reason either.

Unless the child has a specific medical condition that means they can't travel I really can't see why a parent would refuse to send their child on a school trip. And if the child had a specific medical condition the the school would undoubtedly be aware of this so would be understanding anyway.

But I don't see why the school should provide an alternative. If the trip is part of the children's education for that day then that is what they will be doing.

Where do you draw the line? "oh I don't want my child sitting on the carpet with other children so you should provide an alternative for that"? or "I don't want my child playing outside at playtime so he/she should be allowed to stay inside"? or "I don't want my child learning to read so you need to let him listen to cd's instead?"

Poor little bugger. It is hard if he can't go on the school trips. If the parents are strapped for cash there should be a fund

wannabee.....I well remember the mnetter who was pissed off with the school because her dd played outside at break time and she had a cold. Mother felt she should have been supervised indoors

Years ago I drove my DS on his school trip cos they used a coach comapny who didn't use/have seatbelts and so I refused to let him go in it

So I drove him there and then returned to collect him at the end of the day.

I expressed my annoyance that they decided to use a cheaper company who used old coaches without seatbelts.

They were taking them on the M25 without seatbelts!!!!!!!!!!!

{btw they have since changed coach company}

Perhaps he feels the same about the coach company the school uses.

.

oh yes mb I remember that. Although iirc she was swiftly told to get a grip by the mn collective.

My mil used to be a chair of governors at a school, just after the 7/7 bombings one class was due to go on a trip to a galary in london. Mil was in the head's office when two parents came to see the head, to tell her they were not happy about the trip going ahead and therefore they would not be allowing their children to go on it. When the head asked why they said that they were afraid something might happen such as the galary being bombed for eg. but then went on to say that they would take the children themselves as they thought it would be safer. surely if someone is going to bomb somewhere, those affected will be affected anyway, regardless of who they're with?

bran - I'd argue that as education isn't compulsary until the term after a child's 5th birthday, that they cannot possibly have an unauthorised absence before this as attendence is optional anyway. I have argued this successfully in the past btw!

Mind your own...

You are a bunch of old gossips!

Pavlov - is this you who won't let your child go on trips?

LOL! my LO is too young for school at 2.3

after many many many many many requestly weekly for money "voluntarily for school trips and other fund raising activities, i had finally had enough. i went to see the head teacher about it - i was that annoyed - it was costing a princely sum and i couldn't understand how people like me (skint) could afford it

year 6 trip to isle of wight costing £200 per child - i have twins....t o give you an idea

she told me there was a "hardship fund" that parents could apply too.

i said i would hardly call myself in hardship - however if i did, i wouldnt beg the school for money - why not use the money to lower the cost of the trip for all. i told her i thought it was discriminatory to expect a parent to hold their dignity in their hnds and ask the school for money.... there is other ways this can be done - a tick box on the form or some such

she was v. rude about the whole thing and i refused to let my children go on the smaller trips.

they were catered for in another class.

if the poptions available to the parent are a "voluntary" contribution or unautherised absense - i would follow the official complaints proceedure - becuase it is therefore a stealth mode of collecting money and is indeed hardly voluntary at all if alternative arrangements are not made

really don't see how unauthorised absence can be used for this instance as the parent is not choosing to keep the child at home; rather the position is that the school is not available to the child on that day (except in the form of a trip for which the parnets haven't consented - the issuing of consent forms proves its voluntary)

All the schools I have been in they have kept the children not on the trip in school in another class or with the head.

Custardo - entirely agree. At our school there is always a note at the bottom that if you can't afford it you should make a nppointment with teh Head Teacher to discuss - which strikles me as totally our o ofder and humiliating, like applying to the parish for poor aid. ( Especially as we have numerous notes of this type)

I do not think this is an unauthorised absence. Surely the school also has a legal requirement to provide education, so if the parents do not consent to trips, then it is the school that is not upholding its duty. (I'm just being contentious . My dc always go on school trips). I would not keep them off these, even though I can never relax on the days when they are out.

dd1 has just come back from a residential trip. 5 of the class did not go and the school had to find these children space in other classes for the four days that their class was away. The trip cost £100 for two nights and the children and teachers were given an extra day off school to recover. Most children that did not attend could not afford it.

Is there an obligation to go on the trips? If not then the school should provide an alternative.

State schools can only ask for VOLUNTARY donations to pay for trips. If you don't wish to pay, they can't exclude your child just because you haven't paid. Unfortunately some parents well able to pay, won't, whilst others who can't afford it may well not admit to it and so take dodgy loans etc, rather than explain their situation.

Jeee, you are right that state schools ask for a voluntary donation, but if too many parents say they can't/won't pay, then the trip is cancelled. Also, my understanding is that this doesn't apply to residential trips and the children who don't go are put in another class for the duration.

I'm quite surprised that the OP has said that the form was a general form of consent. I would expect to fill in a separate form for each trip.

I have had to sign one of these "general consent" forms - these apply (in our school) to quick trips to the park, round to the shop, etc, NOT day trips involving coaches etc, for which seperate consent is asked for, for each trip.

So it may be that the parents do not wish their child to go on these small trips on foot. Maybe he runs away a lot? (clutching at straws)

The parents may just not feel their child is safe on a school trip. The 'unauthorised absence' threat is an empty one.

Not sure if this has been mentioned but it seems to me to be a bit pointless asking for your consent for something and having nothing in place to cope with the answer being no. There's no point asking a question if you're only prepared to hear one answer?!

The conversation was with a TA, they only think they know everything.

Wotulookinat-what do you mean by that? Surely the TA is only acting on the teacher's authority based on the school's policy?

Yes, in theory, but might have said that they weren't allowed to leave children behind in order to encourage all to go on the trip. Children often go into other classes in such situations. I've worked in schools where a couple of staff have stayed behind because one child hasn't been on a trip for whatever reason. I am sure she is acting in the children's best interests, but her information may not be 100% accurate.