Collective worship in primary school. What is it exactly?

[Dragonbutter]

I'm looking at primary schools for DS1 who will start september 2009.
I've specifically chosen non-faith schools but have found that two out of the three schools i've looked at mention 'collective worship' on their websites.

I am humanist/atheist and I don't have a problem with him learning about different religions but the term 'worship' is worrying me.

So what is it exactly?
Do all schools do it?

Perhaps. 'Take a few moments to think of the people suffering in New Zealand...' or 'Let's think of one thing today that we have done to help someone else...'
and no mention of prayer or anything resembling 'worship'.

'Take a few moments to think of the people suffering in New Zealand...' or 'Let's think of one thing today that we have done to help someone else...'
which is exactly what happens in most schools

I'd just like to point out this thread was started in 2008. Which isn't to say the continuing discussion is not interesting, but I doubt it is of much further help to the Dragonbutter as her son will be well on his way through school by now.

My child goes to a catholic primary but my husband and I did not go to school here. So this is the first time I heard about the collective worship in assembly in non-faith schools and I have to say I am completely baffled. I totally understand that those of other or without faith find this offensive. Faith (or no faith) is important business for many and should really not be left to the choice of individual teachers or head-teachers who come and go. I think parents have a right to know what their children are being exposed to at school in terms of religion. The legislation referring to a wholly concept of 'broadly Christian nature' is totally unhelpful, imo. Ultimately this is a shortcoming of a system that does not separate between church and state as many other countries do as a matter of constitutional principal, not at least to protect minorities. It's not good enough telling the minority to go away and have their children withdrawn from assembly.

mrz, in that case, they are failing to carry out the legal requirement of collective worship!

No they aren't isn't it "broadly Christian" to show concern about others - New Zealand? and to consider how we have helped others? and if we haven't perhaps it might prompt us to do so

It is broadly Christian, but it isn't worship.

add "Amen "

Dragonbutter, I am a humanist too, and DS goes to a C of E school, and even there, the collectiver act of worship is nothing more than a quick prayer at the end of assembly (always relevant to the kids and current affairs e.g Thanbks for good things, thoughts towards victims of accidents like the earthquake recently) with Amen added on at the end. The actual prayer is just saying and thinking something positive that all children, no matter what they believe, will benefit from.

They don't sing hymns, they sing a lot of songs that were never around in my day, some of them have a Christian slant, most don't.

The way I see it, they're just songs and stories, and it won't brainwash DS into believing these things against his own will, but if he chooses to be a Christian or any other religion that's his choice. I do not think his schooling will affect that really.

thats exactly what they do add an amen yes it is what weve been trying to explain all along its just supposed to encourage most schools ethos of be kind to one another considerate wether to the boy sitting lonely in the playground or the people in new zealand its supposed to bring everyone together not to preach but to teach them love and understanding its not brainwashing so if they change their wording on the website from worship which you dont like to morning community gathering which is what it is you wouldnt be worried? Schroedinger "Ultimately this is a shortcoming of a system that does not separate between church and state as many other countries do as a matter of constitutional principal, not at least to protect minorities. It's not good enough telling the minority to go away and have their children withdrawn from assembly" this is exactly what the schools do do here in uk too make the assemblies accessable to all its in our consitution its imbeded so much my sons first school upset the majority deciding to teach all the children "christmas" is called winter festival and putting this all about school on letters boards so you cant say we dont protect the minorities actually we do quite the opposite we worry not to offend the minorities and disreguard the majorities feelings , faiths and customs all for the sake of the PC busy bodies

That isn't worship though is it. So if they're not going to worship anyway, we should get rid of the legal requirement.

It depends on your definition of worship
for many Christians a moment of silent prayer is indeed worship.

'homage or reverence paid to a deity'

Thinking about those less fortunate than ourselves is not necessarily prayer.

If the school is obliged to worship collectively, then surely they are negligent in this duty if they do not direct the children to pay homage to God.

My class used to say "Tank you heavenly farmer" does that count?

Our Father, who aren't in heaven...

well mine would say
our farmer ...
I once had a "thank you heavenly fireman..."

"Harold be thy name.."

maybe people dont give our dc's enough credit they are inteligent and naturally non biased non racist , and much more able to choose lets give them the space and time to decide for themselves have a good evening everyone

Maybe we should encourage them to worship Hindu, Muslim, Christian and Jewish Gods among others..give them a real choice in their beliefs.

betty, how does believing that our children are capable of making rational decisions prevent us from disagreeing with this ridiculous requirement?

TimeWasting now I can understand that you don't want your child to be subjected to "collective worship" but why are you so determined that "collective worship" should be formal or ceremonious rendering of homage to God and not the low key variety carried out in most schools? Is it because without the formal or ceremonious rendering of homage you haven't really got anything to object to?

We do teach children how others pray and as you know Amen is used in other world religions not just Christianity. So their silent "prayer" can be directed to the deity of choice

I nearly answered this with full details of our 'assemblies' and then realised that it would identify me!

However, I think it's time the word 'worship' was removed. IMO an assembly is a good way to foster a sense of community within the school and to talk about culturally or globally important things (this may be religions, charities, world events, etc).