Primary school catchment - both schools over-subscribed

[muddledig]

I appreciate it’s early to be looking at this for 2027 entry but would appreciate any advice/knowledge! It’s a long post, sorry, tried to give as much info as possible in case it’s relevant. But in summary, both primary schools in my catchment area are oversubscribed. Will the LA have to find us a place at one of them because we’re in catchment? Or should we be looking at other nearby (also over-subscribed) schools?

We are in catchment for 2 primary schools. Both are over-subscribed, school 1 is technically the no.1 rated school in our area (out of about 30), school 2 is no. 23 rated, according to find my school. (Before anyone says it - yes, we will look round the schools before applying, and yes I understand that the rankings are only one measure of success, and not necessarily an indicator of the best fit for my child). I do have a preference on paper - partly because one is a faith school and one isn’t.

Last year, school 1 had 170 applicants for 60 places, and school 2 had 90 applicants for 30 places. we are closer to school 2, but well within the catchment for both, they are in opposite directions from us. Looking at previous admissions, it seems unlikely, based on distance (we meet none of the criteria to give us more priority) that we would be offered a place at either school.

So what do we do? Should we be planning to look round other local schools to put those down as our 3,4,5 and 6th choices? There are schools closer to us than school 1 that we are not in the catchment area for, but they are also over-subscribed. Please help me make it make sense!!

So someone with a 3rd place choice who hasn’t been given 1 or 2 would need to be given a place if they ranked 29th at that school on criteria even if they hadn’t put it as 1st choice. It’s based on criteria for admissions not whether they put it as 1st choice, it’s just that if it wasn’t 1st choice and they were offered a place elsewhere they can then be removed from the list and others move up.

OP seems to think it’s based on preference and not putting a school as 1st preference means you won’t get it, this is a common misconception.

So where does 'living in catchment ' rank on the admissions criteria list? If it's not mentioned and it's just 'Distance' then surely it's not a catchment area?

I’m sorry I don’t understand the question? Yes our address is within the catchment area for both school 1 and 2, they both have a defined catchment area, and my understanding is that both use the catchment area in their admissions criteria. At school 1 distance is a higher priority than school 2.

I would just focus on the last distance offered and not be too concerned about catchment. Most London schools just have last distance offered and no catchment at all, and catchment is fairly meaningless if you don't live close enough to the last distance offered. It only becomes relevant in certain boundaries where you might live quite close but not within the catchment, then you wouldnt stand a chance of a place even though you might live closer than someone in catchment.

I would maybe use up a couple of your six choices on the schools you want most, but focus the remaining choices on schools that you live comfortably within the last distance offered for (where that is the main entry criteria). I wouldn't rely too much on falling birth rates - it hasn't really affected the chances of getting into the very oversubscribed schools - having a few less other candidates doesn't help you if the current applicants all live closer than you. All it means is that the less popular schools are even more undersubscribed.

Distance is not the same as catchment. What priority is catchment?

What are the actiual oversubscription criteria, though? If the school has a defined priority admissions area, then this wording - or 'catchment area' - will be used in one of them, e.g.

1. LAC / PLAC (this is a statutory requirement)
2. Siblings
3. Living within the school's catchment area
4. Other applicants, ranked on distance from home

For a fairh school, 'living within <specified> parishes' may be a substitute for 'catchment area'.

But if the criterion is just 'Distance', wirh no mention of a defined geographical area, then that school does not have a defined catchment area.

School's have catchment areas (or don't, as the case may be). Your specific address may fall into the defined catchment area for a named school (or, less commonly, schools), or it may not, in which case, each school you apply to will rank you under its final criterion, unless you meet a higher one, such as your DC being baptised into the faith of the school etc. There should be a facility on your LA's website to check this; the information may be in a section within School Admissions, or within a more general section on services for addresses within the LA (e.g., you look up your street and it tells you that your bin day is Tuesday, you are in catchment for X primary school and Y secondary school).

What people usually mean by School A, School B and School C are in my catchment area is that these are the nearest schools that they like in their area. It then turns out that School D, less desirable but on their doorstep, is their actual catchment area school, where they would have been ranked safely within PAN, but they didn't name it, none of the schools they did name ranked them within PAN, and now they're moaning that they've been allocated, as per the Admissions Code, the nearest school with a place available and it's another school they don't like, but three miles and two changes of bus away,

I really wish this was better understood.

I liked @Lougle ‘s explanation about how it is all allocated.

Yes. If school C has a PAN of 60, and:

• a parent has put School C as their third place preference

• they are within the first 60 people who meet the criteria
• their first and second place preferences do not have a space for them

Then they will get a place at school C even if there are 100 parents who put the school as their first or second preference but meet the admissions criteria less well.

This is why we see claims that 'something went wrong' every year, because Johnny got a place at the school even though it was his third preference and Jenny didn't even though it was her first preference.

Preference only counts when you have multiple options.

The reason we always say 'Include a school you have a reasonable chance of being accepted by, even if you don't want it' is that if no school on your list can offer you a place, the LA will look for a school that can. But that will be after all the places that have been requested are allocated.

Example:

Lucy lives very close to school A but she doesn't like it. So she puts school B, C and D on her list:

• B is highly oversubscribed and has a sibling policy. There are lots of siblings this year. They can't take her child.
• C is close but they have a catchment area that goes West and stops in the next village. The oversubscription criteria places in catchment children above our catchment children. Despite being closer to the school than some children in the catchment area, the fact that they are out of catchment means the child doesn't get a place because the last places went to in catchment children.
• D was always a long shot. The past 5 years, the furthest distance offered was 1.1 miles. Lucy lives 1.6 miles away, but she thought it might be a better year. The gamble didn't pay off and her child lives too far away.

But it's ok, she thinks, because school A is really close. Except that school A was not on her list. It has a PAN of 60, 45 people put it on their list, so they got places, then the remaining places went to people in the same situation as Lucy but they live closer.

Now, Lucy's child has been allocated a school she's never heard of, 6 miles away, because they have places. She's not entitled to transport because had she put school A on her list, her child would have got a place there.

Yes this.

Where does 'in the school's catchment area" rank in the admission criteria @muddledig ?

If it does not appear at all then the school does not have a catchment; it is simply a school you live near enough to to expect to get a space.

@Lougle's posts are very clear. As I already posted, there's a secondary local to me with a very specific catchment area and there are numerous villages that are in catchment where DC will get a space (if they list the school obvs) but DC who live in the next village – a lot nearer than some of the catchment villages – will not (bc there is an alternative school that is also near, unlike the isolated villages).

7 schools within a mile of you? Wowsers.

My dd school was 1.3 miles away walking (driving was further as my town has lots of shortcut paths to facilitate walkers and cyclists ) and honestly it didn’t stop her friendships - in fact she’s still great friends with her best friend who lives a 1 min walk from the primary school (imagine how HER mum felt when her dd, living almost on top of the school, made a best friend in year 1 who lives 1.3miles in the wrong direction!)