Primary school catchment - both schools over-subscribed

[muddledig]

I appreciate it’s early to be looking at this for 2027 entry but would appreciate any advice/knowledge! It’s a long post, sorry, tried to give as much info as possible in case it’s relevant. But in summary, both primary schools in my catchment area are oversubscribed. Will the LA have to find us a place at one of them because we’re in catchment? Or should we be looking at other nearby (also over-subscribed) schools?

We are in catchment for 2 primary schools. Both are over-subscribed, school 1 is technically the no.1 rated school in our area (out of about 30), school 2 is no. 23 rated, according to find my school. (Before anyone says it - yes, we will look round the schools before applying, and yes I understand that the rankings are only one measure of success, and not necessarily an indicator of the best fit for my child). I do have a preference on paper - partly because one is a faith school and one isn’t.

Last year, school 1 had 170 applicants for 60 places, and school 2 had 90 applicants for 30 places. we are closer to school 2, but well within the catchment for both, they are in opposite directions from us. Looking at previous admissions, it seems unlikely, based on distance (we meet none of the criteria to give us more priority) that we would be offered a place at either school.

So what do we do? Should we be planning to look round other local schools to put those down as our 3,4,5 and 6th choices? There are schools closer to us than school 1 that we are not in the catchment area for, but they are also over-subscribed. Please help me make it make sense!!

In our area there isn't a catchment as such, it's just whoever is closest (after siblings, looked-after children etc). Even if there is a catchment there will be an over subscription criteria and most likely offers will be given based on distance (if no church criteria..). If others live closer to school 1 / 2 you will get offered the next choice you qualify for.

it's worth noting that the 170 applicants may include anyone who put that school on their list, not only those who put it 1st. So that figure is misleading. In London you add 6 schools and the figure includes anyone who has listed it as one of their 6.

What are the exact criteria? Some areas do have Priority Admission areas, where living in the area gives advantage over not living in the area. But most its just "distance from school" as a tie break.

Thankyou and good point @BeautifulTrees1234. We do have catchment areas where we live. But maybe the catchment lines become a bit pointless when all the schools are oversubscribed.

for school 1 there were 75 first preference applications (170 total), all 60 places were given to these. But the last distance offered was lower than the distance from our house to the school.

for school 2 there were 34 first preference applications (98 total), 28 places went to these, and one each to second and third preference applicants. Last distance offered is still lower than the distance to our house.

Of course, the distance offered part is also hard to judge because it might be that last year all the kids just happened to live very close, but it’s all very confusing. Hats off to everyone who has already had to navigate this system! I hope DS can go to one of the schools, he will likely be an only child and I’d love him to have friends nearby.

There is also the falling birth rate to take into account. This may play in your favour.
Yes I would be listing your preferred choices, in order, right to the sixth.

The church school, does it have additional criteria which would make it more or less likely that your child is offered a place? That may change your order of preference.

In that case make sure you list your preferences in true order of preference, and list as many as you can (eg 6 if you can). If you get offered a school lower down your list you should stay on the waiting list for the schools higher up and you may well get an offer later.

Not sure where you are based but in cities there's often several offers from the waiting list right up until term starts. We got a third round offer in Summer despite being a fair bit further than the last distance offered. Then mid September we got an offer from another heavily over subscribed school that we'd been told we wouldnt have a chance to get into (we declined as were already happy with our other offer). Just saying you never know because it all depends on births in your area etc etc.

Some areas require you to ask to remain/be added to waiting list so just check the rules in your specific area.

If you cannot be allocated a place at your preference schools, you willl be allocated a place at the nearest school with space.

If there are no schools within a "reasonable" distance, the council can request a school go over PAN (Fair Access Protocol)... but you dont chose the school.

If the school is over two miles, you should get transport. But its just for the child...

yes it’s a good point and there is actually a primary school nearby closing because of low attendance. However, one of the schools we’re in catchment for is right in the town centre so has lots of people living very close, and the other is outstanding ofsted rated, very highly thought of. I checked previous years admissions and applications seem to be going up, not down! Appreciate we are lucky to have good, popular schools nearby though, just feels hard to navigate. I’m asking partly because I need to make some job related decisions and school drop off/pick up could be an influencing factor, but will have to just cross that bridge when we come to it, it seems! Thanks all for input and advice.

We definitely don’t meet any of the admissions criteria for the faith school, other than being in catchment for it! But there is a family on our street with children at that school, and they also don’t attend church.

Thanks this is really useful to know, and to be sure not to buy uniform too early!! Glad you have been able to get a place at a school that works for you. There’s so many criteria to consider, not just the academic side of it, but it must have been a bit of a challenging time not really knowing what was happening.

Thankyou, hopefully we’d be allocated a place at one of them, and there are others nearby or even closer and it sounds like we should at least look round those, too. Both schools are well within a mile of us (in a direct line).

When you submit your Common Application Form, all your preferences are used as preference 1 for the purposes of allocation. So every school on the list will be considered as if it is your favourite. The only time the order of your list is used, is when you have more than one school that can offer a place. In that situation, they give you the place that is higher on your preference list.

It's best to put a school that you have a realistic chance of being offered in your last slot, so you have at least one school that is 'safe'.

yes definitely do use all your 6 choices

the preference order won’t bump your application up (ie putting a school as number 1 doesn’t make you more likely to get an offer) but it means if you are eligible for an offer at more than one school on your list, you will be offered the higher preference one

if you are not eligible for an offer at any of the 6 schools then your local authority has to offer you a place at another school which has space. This can be far away and/or the least popular local school so as pp said, it’s best to ensure your list of 6 includes at least one you are very likely to get, rather than putting 6 very popular oversubscribed schools and running the risk of getting allocated somewhere else that you really don’t want or is miles away.

if you don’t get the one you want then accept what you’re given and ask to stay on the waiting list for as many others as you want.

you can also appeal but Reception appeals only succeed if there’s been some sort of error or the criteria were illegal, very unusual

Firstly, as PPs note, a school being oversubscribed doesn’t mean you won’t get a place. Lots of people will list a popular school on their form with no chance – those who fulfil the criteria will still get in. My DC went to a series of over-subbed schools but got a place no worries (we were very close). Their secondary was often listed as the local area doesn't have many popualr secondaries so lots of ppl list it as a punt.

However you then say you are unlikely to get in on distance – in which case yes, you should look at other local schools and list them in order of pref (after the two you really like in case you do get a space at them).

Are the two you like your closest schools? And do they genuinely have catchment areas? IME a catchment is the area where a school pretty much promises a space for your DC. There’s a secondary near me that has a very jigsaw-piece-like catchment, mainly bc it serves a lot of small villages with no alternative, so sometimes you can be in catchment but further away than someone who is not in catchment and doesn’t get a space (school is v popular). AFAIK the school promises a place to al catchment DC that apply (and some do get in outside catchment too).

So I would also check details of the catchment area for the school (a lot of parents use “catchment” as shorthand for “we live close enough to get a place”).

ETA: looking at your updates @muddledig I'm a bit confused - you are in catchment for these two schools but unlikely to be offered a place; and there are other schools you are nearer to? Are you in catchment for these as well? IME it's unusual to be actually i catchment for multiple schools. We had one catchment school at primary and ditto at secondary.

Have you looked to see how far up catchment is on the admissions criteria for each school? The high school my children go to catchment is very low down on the admissions criteria, below looked after children, siblings, students of teachers and feeder school etc

So according to our local authority and the schools, they do have catchment areas. Neither are exceptionally close (ie not just around the corner) but we are in the catchment for both schools I’ve mentioned. School 2 is closest if you walk (and as the crow flies) but the footpath is through woods that I wouldn’t be comfortable walking through when it’s dark. So for travel distance it’s actually pretty similar for both. We are well within the catchment for both, ie not on or near the outer limits. I’m confused too @clary! If we’re unlikely to get a place at both catchment area schools based on distance then something feels broken!

There are other primary schools that are technically the same distance or even closer than school 2 and the same distance as school 1, but we are not in the catchment for these, and they are also over-subscribed, anyway.

School 1 is likely to be our first choice (subject to looking round of course), so will put that first, and then probably school 2 followed by next out of catchment choices.

I’ll try and speak with some local parents and see what their experience has been with the catchment areas - do they really mean anything or is it more about distance!

Thanks everyone!

Yes, for school 1 distance is criteria 4 after looked after children, children of teachers, siblings. For school 2 it’s way down the list after faith requirements.

Tbf the only one of those categories likely to be more than one or two DC is siblings. And even then, it may well be only a handful.

I would contact your LA to query the catchment area, it does seem strange and in fact pretty meaningless. Are you in a big city since you have multiple schools less than a mile away? Where do most DC in local streets go?

For context, we live in a small city and there are only two schools within a mile of our house (and one of those is almost a mile away). There are other reasonable options but they are all well over a mile away.

Thats a good shout, worth asking if it really means anything as it would potentially affect our choices.

We live in a large commuter town. It’s popular with families as it’s more affordable than surrounding villages. Theres actually 7 primary schools within 1 mile of us, and another 3 within 1.2miles! It’s a lot, but they are typically fairly small, well-established schools with one or two form entry.

We haven’t lived here that long, I know a family with children at school 2, but most other families I’ve met have secondary age kids or have gone for private school. There’s another family we know from current nursery class who live round the corner who will be in the same position as us.

Thanks for your replies, it’s appreciated

Schools usually fill from children that live in a circle around the school, with catchment areas (or priority admissions areas as they are often now called) sometimes sometimes leading to irregular shapes. This can mean that there are some areas in a school no man’s land as each school fills up leaving pockets without places. With so many schools within such a small area, you will get a place somewhere not too far away. But worth looking everywhere and less subscribed schools in case you don’t qualify on distance for your preferred schools.

This is a problem in the rural area we live and children can end up being sent miles away.

Oh my gosh. Do you know the details of the matching algorithm? I’ve always wondered what the algorithm was. (I’m such a CS nerd)

Different LAs will use different systems https://www.egfl.org.uk/services-children/admissions/school-admissions-module-sam

This is one.

Is it catchment or distance criteria, the two often get confused? Usually LA does not have to offer either, or any of the preferences, just because you live there, all applicants are ranked according to the criteria and offered their highest preferred school for which they qualify. Living nearer the school may be an advantage depending on the “tiebreak” used if there are more applicants than places. Bear in mind those stats are for all applicants not just those who ranked it first of their preferences.

I’ve always wondered how this works. Are there multiple rounds of the algorithm as those who would qualify for multiple schools on their list free up spaces?

Yes, the basic process is:

Each school has a list created in order of the admissions criteria. The first 30/60/90 whatever applicants get a place.

Then, if more than one school can offer an applicant a place, their place is confirmed at their highest preference school, and their name is erased from the list on the other schools.

So, School A might have applicants 1-60 listed as successful, but then applicants 3, 5, 8, 15, 23, 34, 39, 42, 49, 56, and 59 placed another school higher on their forms.

For school A, those 9 applicants would be erased, and applicants 61-69 would move up the list.

This happens across all lists until every applicant has a place at either the highest school on their preference form, or an alternative school with places.

So according to your local authority, your address is within the defined priority admissions area (catchment area) for a school (School 1) which doesn't have a defined priority admissions area?

whether it’s someone’s 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice isn’t the deciding factor in whether they’re given a place it’s the sibling connection, distance etc. or other factors such as religion if that’s part of the schools admissions criteria. Put the schools in whatever preference order you like, you will ultimately end up with a place at your nearest school (as long as you list it as an option) as that will be the one you have highest priority for and your child will get in to.