Why are teachers failing the narrative for boys, is boy playing incompatible with school

[Leteer]

Does anyone feel like boy play is deeply unsupported and thoroughly discouraged in school up to the point where boys are questioning if play is actually good / encourages boys to question if their hard wired need for play is a bad thing. Isn't this a downward spiral for boys to not support what nature gave them which could in turn affect academic work.

unless she's an EX-Lioness because she realised that men need to have man play all to themselves.

Won't be posting any more in this thread. Hate to waste my time with sexists. They get such a kick out of it when women engage with them as usually they probably don't.

Here is to all the Priyas, Emilys and Jessicas! Long may they rule the football pitches up and down the country. ⚽🏆⚽

Probably Gloved talked ex lioness out of it, told her she was an Emily, not a Priya.

I think I’ll follow suit - for the time being at least- and go out and enjoy the little bit of sunshine I can see.

One or two posters are being increasingly obtuse, but at least their sexism and poor logic is out there for all to see now. So at this point not sure if I want to waste any more time either.

Here is to all the Priyas, Emilys and Jessicas

Hear hear!

Many boys haven’t done well at school for years even when physical play was much more common.

You say rough play helps them learn boundaries. That doesn’t seem to equate to the male violence we have seen in society.

If parents want rough play they can supervise it in their own time

Many schools limit football type games at break as they have limited outdoor space and the typically boys game took over the playground

https://outdoorplayandlearning.org.uk/

This is quite popular in schools

I think it is also important to remember that lunchtime play is staffed by midday assistants on a low wage. Midday supervision is specifically excluded from teachers' working conditions unless they are paid on the leadership scale. In my school that is the Headteacher and one other staff member (who are too busy sitting in their private offices to bother going out on the playground).

Iirc, some of the research that underpinned OPAL found that in a well organised playground with a large variety of different play activities, trained facilitators and no football, all children were on average more active. In contrast, a previous ‘football allowed, everyone else squeezed around the edge’ arrangement led far too many children to be inactive.

@Robostea Has it occurred to you that some of us aren’t huge fans of women’s football. Just as we might not be fans of wrestling. It’s that simple. Doesn’t make us sexist or wanting to exclude woman. Of schools don’t have pitches for all at lunchtime, they need to organise a rota. It’s not rocket science!

I read to the end of page 1 before realising this thread already has 14 pages. I don't have time to read it all now, but I did want to respond to this.

Competitive games (wanting to win, keeping score)
Physical exploration (climbing, jumping, testing limits)
Object-focused play (building, vehicles, tools)

These are all things which are encouraged in my Reception classroom. They benefit all children, boys and girls, and are essential for them to achieve some areas of the early years curriculum.

Rough-and-tumble play (wrestling, chasing, mock fighting)

This is the bain of most teacher's lives. It's simply not appropriate to have children jumping on top of each other, pinning each other to the ground, karate chopping and kicking etc. As some people have explained in the first page alone, and I'm sure many more on subsequent pages too, it's impossible to regulate. What starts off as fun and games always ends in tears or bruises. Children all have different levels of strength and pain thresholds. What is fun for one is painful and upsetting for another. What excited one, scares another. For every parents who say "kids will be kids", another wishes to report relentless bullying if their child is constantly coming home complaining of being hurt by the same child, or is scared of certain children because of how roughly they play. Kids have no idea that the level of force they wrestle dad or an older sibling (for example) with hurts their smaller same-age friend. Larger relatives are naturally more gentle with them, but suddenly a larger same age child dives on top of them and it's going to hurt. Schools simply cannot allow play fighting for all these reasons. They are not failing boys (or children in general) by directing them away from this type of play. It's not appropriate, because it's dangerous. For every parent who would be happy for school staff to stand back and allow children to engage in rough play fighting, there would be another who would be outraged that school allow it to happen. Rightly so in my opinion.

Chasing games are completely different (I'd put them in the competitive games category myself), as long as the child doing the chasing is simply tagging rather than wrestling/jumping on top of someone when they catch them.

A school classroom or playground, with a >30:1 supervision ratio and boys of different ages and sizes (especially during puberty) is not the place to exercise OP's demands for rough play (disingenously couched as "boy play"). Take responsibilty for your own child's development and take him to sports and the park. There's a finite amount of stuff the state can provide for you; the rest you can do yourself.

Competition, with one winner, is pretty much verboten in schools, due to 21st C parenting, where parents give their children fulsome praise for mediocre results. The sting of losing and the desire to win are powerful motivation for success that has been lost in state schools.

I agree with the PP who expressed concern at the education system forcing children to sit on chairs, assimiltating information for 5-6 hours a day: It is unnatural. However, in a class of 30+ pupils, many of whom would not use freedom of movement wisely, or safely, it is a necessity.

No child needs rough play
if girls can manage without it so can boys
bring your kids up properly , make them respect others, teach them how to deal with their energy and don’t expect others to do it for you

It's literally human psychology. Look it up.

She is equally irritated by how girls are socialised in this way and how she was cast as boyish for simply not being that way inclined.

Yes. And those sexist views are reinforced by experiences with Emilys'.

No, she's previous generation.

And so is it racism when you tar all travellers or any demographic with the same brush. However, that doesnt erade the complexity of having an overwhelming negative set of experiences with a certain demographic and therefore expecting the same outcomes in future interactions.

Having been at a school that's gone through the OPAL process, that's definitely been the experience.

Football is allowed in defined areas; interestingly fewer kids choose it than in the past because they have a lot more choice and they're not playing to expected roles.

Rough and tumble play is also allowed within a clear framework and guardrails that distinguishes it from fighting; talking to some of the lunchtime supervisors this was what they were most sceptical about at the start and some are still a little nervy about it but the kids know what the parameters are.

Overall it's been fascinating to watch - including seeing the kids gain more responsibility for evaluating and managing reasonable risks themselves, rather than having risks eliminated/managed for them.

No actually. She spends her professional life now encouraging parents to teach girls to run, kick, throw and catch before they enter formal education. She mostly works with preschools. She has the same expectations of commitment and focus for girls and boys of all levels and ages. Partly because her experience of girls' football teams (where they existed) were that they were for a mess around and a giggle.

Have you seen the EYFS curriculum? It’s very much play based - but some schools bow to parental pressure and introduce more formal learning in Reception. You only have to see some of the posts on MN about what reading book your 5 year old is on, to see that parents have a lot to answer for.

Competition, with one winner, is pretty much verboten in schools, due to 21st C parenting, where parents give their children fulsome praise for mediocre results. The sting of losing and the desire to win are powerful motivation for success that has been lost in state schools.

Not in any schools I've worked in. There are constant competitions in drama, music, in maths challenges, debating competitikns competitive sports day, external and internal competitions kids are encouraged to enter. Lots of lessons involve some kid of competitive game.

Not sure why you’re directing most of this at my post. I have no time for naming moods by colours, I call a little shit exactly what they are.

The “novel approach” as you call it is irrelevant. Parent your own child and don’t expect teaches to do so, if they need to interact physically with others ( they shouldn’t) take them to karate classes and don’t expect other children at school to bear the brunt of it. There is too much blame on teachers in our society ty, they are there to educate children ( the clue is in the name) not obviate parents of responsibility for the misbehaviour of their children. If you are not teaching his at home then schools staff have no hope of doing so and you would be actively undermining their efforts.

As someone who works with small children, it is increasingly difficult to allow rough and tumble play in school in a way that aligns with health and safely issues.

I’m all for climbing trees and risk taking play, but quite often our hands are tied with what we can allow. Following a recent visit from a Health and Safety advisor, head teachers are liable for absolutely everything, so it’s hardly surprising they take such a hard line with anything that could pose a risk 🙄

Was at the big Tesco last night and some pretty tall lads were playing tag around the car park. Definitely teens. Very dangerous as it was dark and they were dressed in dark clothes. At first I thought they were running from something - kids often being chased out of supermarkets - but these lads had come to play tag!!

back to OP. All kids need movement breaks to burn off energy. Pushing and pulling type games are good . Climbing and hanging from play structures all good. Shame health and safety stopped a lot of them. I remember when climbing frames were removed due to parents sueing school for broken bones when kids fell off. That’s how they learn!! That’s how they reset between lessons - by moving around. Accidents happen but suddenly no one can burn off energy now due to health and safety.

I take my car to a garage which is owned and ran by women, and my council currently employs 15 bin ladies!

I suppose what it is is not a sex based thing but an innate personality based thing. I have really tried to nurture my son into being someone who sits still and chills out like me. It doesn't work. He has a need for movement. He's never been violent though, that's not been an issue for us. But climbing, running, wriggling, writhing, splashing, jumping etc...

Tbf I think I need exercise to feel right too, I concentrate loads better after exercise as well but I'm also naturally a people pleaser so will conform to what is expected of me. His need for movement often transcends the social expectations of his setting.

Wish I could train that out of him but I've tried and it doesn't seem possible.