Friend told me ds2 is the most unpopular child in his class

[tigermoth]

Well, she didn't exactly say that, but that's what she meant. I asked her to be honest and tell me if I could do anything to help. She said it wasn't my fault - not to do with discipline etc. I asked her if it was to do with ds2 playing lots of soldier games at school but apparently this is not the problem.

She says the problem is ds2 seems boisterous in the playground and other parents worry about controlling him so he gets no invites. I gathered from her that there's been a recent whole class party at school to which ds was the only child not invited. I had no idea .

I drop off ds in the morning, never linger at the school and that is my only regular contact with the parents. I do not get involved with playground politics and do have friend amongst parents in other years. AFAIK the parents in his class seem friendly enough - I see them socially from time to time and chat to them at school fairs etc. I have never fallen out with any of them.

To put this into context, ds's behaviour never seems to be a big issue with teachers there - I have never been called in to see the teachers to talk about his behaviour, ds has never been involved in a fight or AFIAK deliberately hurt another child, he has never had to see the head and rarely misses playtimes for bad behaviour. (In contrast, my oldest son while in year 4, has lots of punishments for behaviour - so I know what I am talking about. Yet ds1 also had friends and had party invites).

Ds2 does complain from time to time about having no best friends in his form, but when I see him with them, he's always in a group and chidren seem to like him.

Last november at a parent/teacher meeting his form teacher told me ds was sad and lonely at school as his best friend had moved to another school. Ds2 had never told me he missed his friend so much. The teacher told me the priority in his individual education action plan was for him to build friendships in his class and asked me to organise playdates to encourage his friendships. Since then I have had four or five children from his class round. Everyone seems to get on well but no parents have reciprocated with playdates and ds1 has been invited to no parties since year 3.

I thought it was just that one of those things, until my friend spoke to me yesterday. My friend is an active member of the PTA and a govenor, so gets to hear some inside information. She also told me that the teachers are aware that ds2 does not seem to fit in with his class. The head said ds2 was a favourite of his, as he was such a polite and honest boy when you got to know him.

My dh and my friend said it was all to do with playground politics - nothing I as a parent can do about it. It is the other parents who have grouped up and I should just ignore it, keep inviting children round but expect nothing in return.

I still feel a bit gutted though

I too am about your "friends" opinion of this...
Why on Earth would she tell you this.....? and after all it's only her interpretation of the situation.
If ds2 had a good friend who left he might be finding it hard to find his place again within the class dynamic. Don't talk to your "friend" about this, make an appointment to see the teacher to find out the situation and if there is a problem what she is doing to help. I really wouldn't worry too much about the return playdates just yet, there could be a million reasons, parents busy, after school clubs, it could just be shyness because they don't know you too well and I'm pretty sure it can't possibly be because he seems boisterious...you're telling me he is the only boisterious boy in the whole year...? Don't believe it!
Don't worry...you just keep encouraging him to have friends over and to make friends outside of school

Yup--it's fine if a loner child is happy in his own company. It's different if he feels left-out. Those feelings can take a lifetime to get over. YOu don't need to be popular but everyone needs a friend.

I have just arranged a sleepover at our house for ds2 with his old best friend from school who still lives nearby. Ds2 is so excited. He is also utterly singleminded about this boy being his best friend and irreplaceable. Every conversation I have with ds2 over friendships in his class comes back to how this boy was his best friend - no one else will match up. The boy left the school nearly a year ago. Ds2 is also very reluctant to talk about who he plays with at school or what he does there - I really have to prise it out of him and he refuses to answer questions if he feels he is being interrogated.

Ds2's teacher seems very on the ball about this. It was she who alerted me to ds's problems in the class. She has formed a small group of children - 3 boys and a girl - who meet up each week to talk about friendships and improve their social skills at school. They have been meeting now since January. One of the boys I have invited back is from this group (admittedly his parents are having lots of building work done to their house and the mother said they were not in a position to do playdates at the moment). Ds1 likes this boy and actually he seems quite a popular little boy to me, so I am surprised he is in the group - but he is also very sensitive. The other boy and is someone ds1 does not get on with too well and I don't think he plays much with the girl. From what I can gather, ds2 is there because he kept choosing not to mix with the other children, and was so upset about his best friend moving from the school.

I am pretty sure some of the other parents in ds2's class know about this group. I don't know if they see it as a problem group so that puts them off inviting ds2 round.

I think the second playdate suggestion is really good and that has worked for us in the past with ds1. I also agree that some of this lack of invitation stuff is just due to the fact that people lead busy lives. I want to talk to my friend to clarify some facts about this whole class party. She alluded to it in a roundabout way, so I am not 100% sure. If ds2 is being exluded from whole class parties than that is IMO more worrying than playdates not being returned.

Thanks for pointing out that parents would not let their children come round to ours if they were worried about ds2 or us. That makes me feel better!

Marina, thanks
I think you may be right about the parents being picky. According to my friend, there's a laughably big amount of social networking going on at the school nowadays.

I cannot say I have directly witnessed much of this, but have seen it from time to time. However I think the social make up of the school has changed a bit in the last 5 years. There are more parents at school who have high flying careers/ultra plummy accents. I have seen some nice examples of competitive mum syndrome.

My friend is also very outspoken and says she has enemies amongst the parents. There's a possiblity this could be working against me - parents may be put off ds2 and I as we are not in 'on the right side' but I really hope not. (Can people really be that pathetic?).

As for talking to the teacher, the last time I saw her (at a parent/teacher evening in March) she said ds2 seemed to be making more friends in class, even though he had no best friend.

I will see how things seem at the school fair - I will make a real effort to be friendly to the parents in ds2's year and get a general sense of what's going on socially in the year - might give me a clue if ds2 is very much out of the loop. I will decide what to say to the teacher after that.

There comes a time when the children choose their own friends and go out somewhere together without parents, at which point those who have not been backed by their parents' frantic social networking will have an advantage. In the meantime, I don't think there's much you can do about snooty/exclusive/fussy parents (if you find anything, do tell me...). I'd try to build on friendships from activities outside school, as others have suggested.

IMO best friends are a bad idea (esp for girls but prob for boys too) as when they go wrong it's a real disaster.

Boys seem to make aquaintances from sport realted activities - after school football club perhaps?

And playdates are do not have to be reciprocal - just carry on inviting friends home and your ds will slowly develop a friendship network.

If other mothers feel they cannot cope with your ds and his apparent boisterousness then that doesn't mean they are bad people. Just not confident.

Invite children back, invite their parents in for a quick coffee when they pick up? Show the other parents that you're not scary and neither is your ds.

I wouldn't worry about the social networking, as Hallgerda says,when they get older they will choose their own friends and those who have been frantically busy through their parent's efforts will be at a disadvantage.
Best friends can be more trouble than they are worth, I know some girls where you need a box of tissues handy, they have so many fallings out in a week!
Judging by another thread, a lot of people don't like play dates! One poster says she does one a term, so even if it is a different one each time she only has invites for 3 DCs in a year! One of my DS3's friends used to come round regularly but my DS couldn't go back because the mother had 4 DCs and after school was a strict timetable of activities and she was never in!
I should just speak to the teacher to work out if there is a problem.

It's agony when you hear that your DC is being 'left out', isn't it?

My DS2 (7) is a happy enough little soul but young for his age. He 'runs' with a 'gang' that comprises most of the Y2 boys in his Y1/2 class. He's fine with this, but if 'pushed' opts for one boy as his 'best mate' (T), and a Y1 boy as number 2! The interesting thing is, a bit of a clique has formed amongst the parents, involving a couple of SAHDs, too. I'm on the periphery of this group, I suppose, but the DSs of this group are HEAVILY encouraged to play together- school, Beavers, football coaching. They move as one. My DS2, having a less in-your-face personality, is being a bit sidelined by the main group (not that he realises!), the pushiest of whom are the DSs of the loudest parents, I note, BUT one thing which I'm very aware of: ALL these DSs are 'Onlies' or 'first-borns'. The parents have had an extended honeymoon of believing they control the reigns of their DSs friendships but I have a DS1 (9) and I know that, come Sept and Juniors, all will change. Also, the boy 'T' lost his mum last Nov and there has been a definite competition between the parents to show who can be the most consoling, sympathetic etc. He's a lovely boy but is sometimes a bit overwhelmed by the attention as the Alpha parents, via their DSs, vie for his patronage! IF I were '1st time around', I'd be more upset for DS2 but from my vantage point, I can see it for what it is and realise the sands of friendship will have shifted beyond recognition in a year or so's time.

Sorry to hear this, made me feel sad for your lovely son.

Had a similar situation with DD1 in reception and I took the route of pushy PR person. I put my own feelings of being angry and pissed off with other parents out of my mind as much as possible and literally bombarded them with playdates/offers to pick their kids up from school etc.

I also made sure I gave all the kids a very loose rein when they came over and lots of snacks and DVDs (bad I know)!

It DID work and DD1 is now very well like and happy in Yr1.

Don't think your friend is being a stirrer, sounds like she is genuinely concerned although she did put it in a hurtful way.

It sounds horrendous teslagirl! You can control DCs friendships to a certain extent while they are in the infants but after that they will have to let go!

"I drop off ds in the morning, never linger at the school and that is my only regular contact with the parents. I do not get involved with playground politics and do have friend amongst parents in other years. AFAIK the parents in his class seem friendly enough - I see them socially from time to time and chat to them at school fairs etc. I have never fallen out with any of them. "

I think this is also key - the children of the chatty parents who are always in the playground are also the ones who get the most invites. I know I have not helped my children by seeming to be a bit aloof/standoffish (I'm not, I'm just shy). Could you linger at school and be a bit more approachable? IME, it's those drop off and pick up times when parents are hanging around chatting when most playdates are arranged.

Agreed zog - I deliberately hung around playground a lot more when we had problems and it made a big difference. Hard if OP is rushing to work though (?)

ZOG
I was about to post that!!!

I assume (tiger) that your ds2 is in infants still (think I missed it...)?

I wouldn't let my child go with someone who I didn't know at least a little bit.

As for playground politics, I think adults are just as insecure as children sometimes - they get into their "safe" groups, and don't venture out of them - so i don't think its always intentional.

I would seriously make an effort with the other parents.

I'm not having a go, but if you are not naturally inclined to talk to other parents, etc, WHY are you surprised your son doesn't easily make friends? I think some people are more introverted. BUT, if you want to help him, maybe you should SHOW him by example.

Good Luck

BTW
I don't think your frind was being kind.

and

DON'T talk to the other parents. They will just get uncomfortable, and it will only impact on your ds

There is a grain of truth in what you say, I think, about being a bit more high profile at school. When my other son, ds1, was at the school I was working freelance or not at all and I was at the school every afternoon at picking up time.

Nowadays, I am usually in a rush in the mornings when I drop ds2 off and he goes straigh to playclub in the afternoons, but in theory I have time to hover round the school gates and chat in the mornings as I am on flexitime at work. Mind you, most of the other parents seem to be in a rush to leave in the morning as well. The group that tends to hover contain the only two parents at the school that I do not like very much.

I also know quite a few parents at the school through my oldest son. This is a random mix of parents, some with children in my son's class, some from other years. My PTA friend also gets parents together socially and so I get to meet parents this way a few times a year. So I am not a completely unknown parent and anyone who wanted to 'check my credentials' could easily ask around. I also go to the church attached to the school every few weeks.

But yes, it might help if I was around more to for the issue of playdates to crop up naturally in conversation, but I don't think I am that mysterious or unapproachable.

Blimey Tigermoth I have a huge lump in my throat and tears in my eyes...

Two things I would do ref the parents. The first one is to ask your friend to name the parents who are worried about controlling him. Then approach them individually and ask if theres anything that you can do to help ease their concerns about his boisterous play. Then I would ask for the name of the parent who excluded your child from the party and just ask her if there was a reason asto why your son was the only child not to got an invite to the party. (in a nice way of course)

sorry spelling - why your son was the only child not to get an invite to the party.

I am so very tempted to do what you say - at least the bit about finding out exactly what parents my friend is referring to. I am definitely going to ask my friend more about this (she was a bit vague about the party details and it may turn out not to be as bad as she inferred). I won't confront any parent directly, I don't think, but I may be extra nice to them when I next see them.

I think your friend is brave to have said something to you, if what she is saying is true but at the end of the day the most important thing is whether your son is happy with his situation or not. It's really easy for us parents to assume that our children will react to social situations (not being invited to something/s) in the same way as we do, but if your child is happy with how things are then we should probably do our best to leave our own playground paranoia's behind.

I don't know whether it's of interest or not but ... We have children from DD1's reception class over to play/have tea a lot. I let DD1 choose who she would like to bring home (and sometimes this means I have to make a big effort and sometimes no effort at all, depending on the guest!) but I also invite over friends who's mothers I really like and have become friends with ... but only if DD likes the child too.

Tigermoth - just seen this...and certainly worries about controlling him don't tally with the lovely boy who played so patiently and inclusively with my much-younger DS!! Bizarre!

I think it is true that parents who see and talk with each other on a daily basis offer casual invitations to play more than making the effort to specifically contact someone.

Also - making one strong and special friend may have affected him, and may be putting other children off, too, if he is open about his feelings. My brother was a sensitive boy, and always only had one friend - and would bide his time before finding the right person preferring not to dally around with people he was less close with. He took the same approach to finding a wife, but the upside is that he has had very deep and meaningful friendships and a long very happy marriage. Have you had a talk with him about his 'old' best friend and how new friendships will be different?

And amid the Yr4 boy-behviour I have witnessed in my time I truly, truly cannot beleive that any parent with any degree of sound judgment would genuinely think your boy would be too dangerous to invite! Madness!!! See if you can find out whether this is actually the case.

This modern idea of 'arranging playdates' is a new one to me, left to their own devices I bet kids would manage just fine without us but I suppose with kids playing out less and less it's become necessary.

Thanks again. I've just re-reading Teslagirl's message about the group of boys being pushed together by their parents. I suspect this is happening in our class, so I am now going to do a bit of 'research'.

Ds1 was always ready to talk about who was friends with who in his class. ds2 will tell me nothing. This and not being at the school daily means I feel more cut off than I used to.

In fact I still can't put names to faces for about a third of his class, even though this is the fourth year they have been together.

Thanks blu, batters and JJ for reassuring me that ds2 is not an impossible choice of child for playdates. I did not think so myself. But when faced with my friend's opinion and the lack of invites, I had begun to wonder if my perception of things was faulty.

(ps my school was the one where the parent-organised christmas get together for parents was a formal dinner dance at a local hotel costing £40.00 per head)