School RE Trip

[DillyDallyingAllDay]

Hello all,

I hope someone can give me some guidance on this issue that has come up with my childs school. The school make us sign a blanket trip consent form that covers all trips within the city limits. However, they seem to think its not important to actually tell us when and where the children are being taken- usually its places the children can walk to, because if a coach is involved we have to pay and thus, are informed that the trip is happening. Does this sound right? To me it seems like a safeguarding risk that I'm not even aware where my child will physically be during the day?

Of course 😆 as did Benedict Blyths and Karanbir Cheemas parents.

Querying the trip is saying something to the school. Do you think your slightly odd question and tone went completely unnoticed?

Were you expecting the teacher to give you a full analysis of the reasons they were going with links to the curriculum and references to the benefits of offsite learning?

There is no lack of clarity, you are just asking daft questions. It’s Christmas and it’s a school FFS, why do you think they’d be going? What would justify to you that it’s worthwhile, and why would you want your child to be excluded from a nice activity even if it wasn’t?

You really are that parent. If you have that much genuine reason to be upset with the school that you’re constantly holding yourself back, then why would you send your child to them everyday and trust them with something as important as their education? There are other schools and other methods of education.

I’ve actually now had a chance to look into what was actually being ‘taught’ and it turns out it was a Christmas Unwrapped session created by Scripture Union: “Scripture Union exits to see a new generation with a vibrant, personal faith in Jesus’. “The vast majority of under-18’s don’t go to church, but they desperately need to discover the life-changing good news of the gospel” taken directly from their website. Their entire aim is to get kids into church, believing in Jesus etc. Correct me if I’m wrong but this doesn’t seem an entirely harmless, ‘factual’ retelling of Christian beliefs about Christmas? Wonder how people would feel if their children who visited a Mosque or Gudwara were being actively being encouraged to attend those settings?
I’m actually even more sure that my initial gut instinct that the school haven’t been completely open about the session/church is correct.

I queried it entirely casually at the gate at drop off from the position of, ‘is this happening? If so, what’s the purpose of it?’ I love that you can judge my tone from behind a screen. And the school have clearly been disingenuous about it.

Yeah this would piss me off too, I’d have to complain and I too have a horror of being ‘that parent’.

Thats something you should be told about and given a choice over, it’s not just an educational trip.

Thanks for making me feel like I’m not actually going insane. ♥️

Sorry I don't know what that means.

@DillyDallyingAllDay reading your latest posts I now agree they should have given more information about this event and who was running it 🙂

Christmas unwrapped is on their website.

it’s a free resource for schools and they say it aims to explain to the 95% of students who don’t attend church what the Christian parts of Christmas are and what some of the layers that have been added that are not Christian (eg Santa Claus etc).

it’s free and anyone can download the lesson plan.

https://content.scriptureunion.org.uk/product/158

it seems fairly straightforwardLy educational in that it’s aimed at teaching which aspects of Christmas are Christian and the basic Christmas story,

Apologies I have now googled the names.
However - although they were both horrible tragedies I can't see how not being on a school trip out the building would have made a difference.
One poor boy died when a fellow classmate threw cheese. That happened in school. Not on a trip.
The other poor boy they believe the two milks were accidentally mixed up. Again on the school premises.
One was a tragedy due to a child's foolishness. One was a tragedy due to a dreadful mix up.
I don't see how it would make a difference whether your children are in the school building or not.
Any trip out the building - even a five minute walk to the local field - any medicines and medical equipment (inhalers, epi-pens etc) go with them.
I volunteered as a parent helper on trips.
The medical bag was massive and went anywhere and everywhere the children went.

I’ve actually downloaded the lesson plan to have a look at, you can’t actually download it without registering with scripture union first.

The actual description seems fine, but the lesson plan includes the church gifting a bible to school- part of a bigger unwrapping metaphor- the Bible is inside an ornately packaged box and unwrapping the box reveals the true meaning of Christmas- the Christian/Bibical one. If I celebrated Christmas; I’d take offence that the meaning of Christmas that I choose to teach my children, as their parent, is now being contested by an outside power. The true meaning of Christmas being the Christian one? For many people of different faiths and none, the true meaning of Christmas is not the Christian one but one that is solely based on magic/lights/trees/family/presents. It’s not for anyone else to say that’s not true for them.

If you want your child to not go to church that’s fine, but you have to let the school know. My school goes to church each term and there are a handful of children that don’t go. It’s not a problem so long as the school know.

It’s quite common. All my kids’ schools have requested this.

Yet another MN post that helps me understand one of the reasons why turnover in the teaching profession is so high: parents. Teachers are already drowning in admin. Now you want chapter and verse of a neighbourhood trip on foot.

Where do you think your oversight of what happens in your child's school should end? Three possible scenarios. You don't want your child to use wax crayons as they contain an animal product but wooden colouring pencils are fine because trees are vegetable. Your child was frightened by a dog in the park last weekend so Hairy McClary books should be removed from the class library for the next month. You are a classicist so would like to review the lesson plans for next term's Romans topic.

'..this feels rather underhand' is quite the accusation, as though schools are out to trick parents. What it boils down to is that in the state sector at least, schools are there to teach pupils, not to provide a personalised consumer service to parents and carers.

The true meaning of Christmas is the Christian one. That's why it's called the Mass of Christ, because it celebrates the birth of Jesus. I am a Christian. My neighbours are Muslim. At Christmas and Ramadan, we give one another gifts of home-cooked food, in my case mince pies whose mincemeat is made from vegetarian suet. I do not as a Christian put my own meaning on Ramadan. Instead, I acknowledge it as an important part of a faith not my own. Neither was I alarmed when my daughter was gifted a copy of the Koran when some if the family next door - an outside power- went to Mecca, even though I am troubled by some aspects of Islam.

I can't believe they do the whole unwrapping without saying 'we believe' or 'Christians believe'.

You’re not doing your children any favours by stopping them being educated and indeed flat out lying to them. Of course the truth message of Christmas is the birth of Christ - the clue’s in the name! Of course you can and should tell them about the pagan aspect as well, but the fact that you would want them to miss out on this trip shows why the school probably didn’t tell parents - so they don’t have to deal with this nonsense.

Wouldn't have given a shit, myself.

Actually, that's not quite true - I would have thought it was wonderful and hoped that they found it interesting and fun. And that they didnt have too many idiots ranting about them being given an educational experience learning about other people's faiths.

Religious Education ( Nationa. Curriculum), encourages pupils to learn about a wide range of religions and worldviews so they can develop informed beliefs of their own, including no beliefs. Surely that is what you want for your child?

National guidance states that RE should help pupils “know about and understand a range of religions and worldviews”and “express ideas and insights about the nature, significance and impact of these”.

By learning about different traditions, beliefs and practices, pupils gain the knowledge needed to think for themselves, ask meaningful questions, and reflect on what they believe and why. It isn't indoctrination.

The aim isn’t to prove or disprove religion, but to understand it well enough to form thoughtful, well-grounded personal views.

We learn about many religions so that our choices and beliefs are informed by knowledge and understanding, combined with being assured that we can make our own choices. No knowledge prevents this.

@DillyDallyingAllDay do you do this with every lesson?

What is your problem with Christmas? Schools will be doing many Christmas themed activities this term. Do you have issues with all religions?

I think just because some parents don’t care or mind what their child is taught in school or part of the school curriculum doesn’t mean all parents are willing to believe schools are a higher authority and can’t be held the account for the choices they make for the children. I personally believe that the huge increase in trans identifying children is a result of well meaning teachers not considering the wider impact of resources created by organisations such as stonewall. Organisations that were initially seen as perfectly fine and innocent and turned out to have massive agendas that have actually harmed women’s rights. I’m not saying that a minor RE trip is the same, but the school not being open or clear about the trip taking place sets a dangerous precedent.

What’s the issue? This is normal. If it’s walking distance then they just go, you don’t need to know about it and it’s totally normal.

I’m as gender critical as they come and agree with issues over teaching materials but I think this is a stretch to be shocked that children learn about Christmas at Christmas in a church.

That just sounds like you’re in denial that we live in a Christian country.

as a family we don’t celebrate Christmas and I have no issue with my child participating in Christmas related activities at school. This thread started as a “why didn’t the school tell us” query and the more I’ve looked at it, the more uncomfortable it’s made me. Parents have the legal right to withdraw from some or all RE content at primary school and how are parents, me included, given that right if they’re not informed? We get sent curriculum information at the start of every year for every subject and it’s freely available on schools’ websites for the very reason that parents are informed of what their child is being taught. This isn’t as much about the trip itself but wanting to be aware of what my child is participating in.

Have you opted out of RE @DillyDallyingAllDay?