Primary school teacher imposing her opinions

[Chichi444]

My son age 9, came home yesterday and told me that during their free reading time in class his substitute teacher had instructed everyone to pick a book of their choice but it had to be a non fiction so my son and his friend picked the bible, but they were later told to go and select a different book as the bible in her opinion would be classified as fiction my son and his friend disputed this as we are Christian and so is my son’s friend.
The teacher reaction to their disagreement was “there’s no proof whatsoever that the bible is real” so they were forced to pick different books.

I am absolutely furious about this!
aren’t teacher meant to remain impartial on topics such as religion and politics?
and is there anything I can do as a parent for there to be consequences as I find this unacceptable.

thank you for reading!

I mean I’d get it if they were studying non-fiction texts and the task was to pick out features like subheadings and annotated diagrams. A bible is more fictional in layout but as it stands that’s completely inappropriate. I’d send an email across to the head to clarify what happened, it might be that that substitute isn’t hired again

The Bible cannot be described as a non-fiction book and does not have any of the features of non-fiction books.

She was absolutely correct that there is no proof the Bible is real. I'm sure you would be equally annoyed if she handed out copies of the Quran and stated it was factual.

Your son was being facetious by picking out the Bible when instructed to read a non-fiction book.

I’m sure you can see the point of not picking the bible in this instance and no doubt he can read that plenty at home. You can’t be scared his faith will be threatened by being questioned in this way, which it will be more as he grows. Be smart and talk with him about other people’s beliefs instead of getting the hump and spoiling for a fight over something so minor. You’ve imposed your ‘opinions’ on him and he’ll have his own one day. Best to acclimatise rather than go on the defensive.

The bible is a work of fiction, it did not fit the brief.

"She was absolutely correct that there is no proof the Bible is real."
That's really not the point though. Why quibble with a child over something personal like his faith? There was absolutely no need for that and was demeaning and disrespectful. She had no need whatsoever to share her own personal views on his faith.

"I'm sure you would be equally annoyed if she handed out copies of the Quran and stated it was factual."
Again, not relevant. The teacher wasn't handing out books, the children were picking them for free reading and there was no need for her to share her feelings on anyone's religious texts in any case.

"Your son was being facetious by picking out the Bible when instructed to read a non-fiction book."
What do you base this on exactly? Why do you automatically assume the worst of the child? If he has faith in his beliefs then there's no reason to think he'd see scripture as fiction. He's 9, it's not very likely he was spoiling for a philosophical debate with a grown woman for goodness sake.

I'm not a Christian but I wouldn't describe an ancient text like the Bible as fiction, how very weird

I wouldn't describe the Bible as fiction even thought it is fiction. Our ancestors who didn't know any better actually believed in it so it has got historical value.

am bemused there are multiple copies of the bible in a classroom ‘and’ that multiple 9 year olds would choose to read it. It’s not very fun to read…

but anyway I don’t think it should be an option and I definitely don’t think it would fulfill the brief as ‘non fiction’. I would personally call it fiction if we are being binary but probably best to just not try to classify it (in the library it wouldn’t be under either option)

I think she’s right.

It’s got no features of a non fiction text. Photographs, contents page, index, tables, captions .

Why did they both choose the same text? Have they no minds of their own?

I think it’s very clear what the teacher was hoping they would get from a non-fiction book, and the bible (or any religious text) does not fit the bill.

Non fiction literature is about the real world - facts, data and information. So the Bible doesn't fit into that category. It's fine if you want to believe in creationism rather than science, but in terms of what is/is not non fiction, that's not up for debate. She was objectively correct - there is no proof that the Bible is real - because there isn't. Same would go for any other religious text for that matter.

She wasn't imposing any type of opinion - she was speaking the objective truth. It's not as if she said: "God isn't real" is it?

Your DS was being a smartarse.

He knew exactly what she meant by nonfiction.

I might remind DS about Christian values. I vaguely remember Jesus saying something about loving neighbours. I'm not sure your son's behaviour falls into this category.

A great many educators are Leftists and will do all they can to instill Godless values in children.

Complain about the teacher to the head and the school board/governers.

If they can’t be impartial they shouldn’t be working with children.

mmmm ok I didnt realise I might have entered the Atheist communist mamas thread😅😂

Maybe he’s thick though and can’t remember learning the difference between fiction and non fiction texts in nursery, reception, year one or year two.

I was walking my dog yesterday and there was a girl in a supermarket trolley being pushed around the skate park by a boy vaping. She was on the phone to her mother and she was telling her that she had been to school but they had told her that because she was five minutes late they had told her that she wasn’t allowed to go at all and the mother was incandescent about it.

Absolutely furious she was. She was going to go up there and give them a piece of her mind. “They can’t do that, turn you away, you could get knocked over by a car. Don’t you worry Anya I’ll sort them out.” etc.

I was agog at how any parent would believe their child’s obvious lies, but now I know.

Thank you @ShadyPinesMa
flabbergasted…

The Bible is categorised as non-fiction in libraries as it’s a religious text and a cultural and historical document. The religious texts of other religions are also considered to be non-fiction. I’m not religious but the Bible is clearly non-fiction, it doesn’t matter if you think all the stories in it are fabricated. If the teacher did what your DS said, then the teacher was in the wrong.

I don't think the Bible really fits the bill for a non-fiction book.

She probably should have kept her own beliefs much more out of it, but the whole issue could have been solved by ensuring that the school Bible(s) were elsewhere when the children were making their choices.

Not something I would bother getting furious or complaining about.

Because she was teaching them about NON-FICTION texts. It wasn't about her feelings. It was about what the children were supposed to be learning from looking at non-fiction books, and the Bible doesn't fit the brief. KS2 children are supposed to learn about features such as:

Textual Features
Headings and Subheadings:
These guide readers to specific sections of the text, making it easier to find information.

Contents Page:
Located at the front, it lists chapters and topics, showing what the book covers.

Glossary:
An alphabetical list of important words and their meanings, often found at the back.

Index:
An alphabetical list of topics and keywords with page numbers where they can be found, helping locate specific facts.

Captions:
Short descriptions of pictures, often with labels to identify parts of a diagram.

Bullet Points:
Used to give a helpful overview of information in a clear, digestible format.

Bold Words:
Highlight important vocabulary, making the text easier to understand when skimming.

Quotations:
Used to include direct statements from people or sources to back up information.

Visual Features
Pictures and Photographs: Real images that illustrate the topic being discussed.

Diagrams: Illustrations with labels that show the different parts of an object or process.

Language Features
Factual Information: The core of non-fiction, presenting information that is true and backed by evidence.

Formal Language: Often uses precise and formal vocabulary suitable for an informative text.

Descriptive Language: Used to explain the subject matter clearly and effectively to the reader.

A KS2 child will already have covered some of these (children start to understand the way non-fiction texts are set out in Y1) and will be well aware that the Bible isn't suitable.

And saying that the Bible can't be proved isn't a personal opinion, it's a fact. Even most Christians would say that it's a matter of faith, not factual proof.

I feel like this post might be becoming derailed into whether or not the bible is fictional.
The fact is whether the teacher is correct or not the professional standards say you shouldn't impose your own beliefs on your students. We are told to keep it to ourselves and speak impartially. Or do the ‘some people believe…, other people believe…’

How incredibly rude of you - you don't know the faith (or non faith) of anyone on this thread. If you don't know what constitutes non fiction then that's one thing, but to just insult people for pointing that fact out to you is quite another. Oh but I guess you put emojis at the end so you were 'just joking' and not intending to cause offence...

She wasn't teaching RE, she was teaching English.

Do you understand that there is a curriculum which states that KS2 children have to learn to identify and use the features of non-fiction texts, and that for the purposes of this exercise, the Bible did not fit the brief?

She didn't say it's not true. She said it couldn't be proved. This is factually true of all religious texts.

@InMyShowgirlEra I’m well aware of what the curriculum says but in OPs original post it said they were having ‘free reading time’. This implies they weren’t teaching English skills.
Also the teacher could’ve said “I’d like you to read a book with more nonfiction features” rather than “there’s no proof that’s real”