Visiting primary schools

[Pandaghost]

Hi
My child is due to start reception next year. I have called 2 schools this week to ask to arrange a visit. One told me the dates arent ready and to leave my details (applications open soon so this seems v unorganised but new head started this term so may explain) and the other told me of an open community day taking place on a weekend.
AIBU to want to be shown round during the school day? Neither school has entertained this but I feel I would get a better feel for it than on a weekend with no kids.
I have previously worked in a secondary school which always had parents looking round during the school day so I know it is a done thing in high school but the primaries seem reluctant to do so.
Thanks!

I understand why they want to do all visits together but are there no other date options on weekdays. All my visits last year were during the school day, normally with 2-4 options for dates over the next few months. You might just have to give them time to get those organised hopefully.
You do have a few months for applications so don't rush it, I'd want to get the latest results and hear any recent local opinions before submitting.

It's usual to be shown around after the school day or on weekends for Reception applications.

Imagine the disruption for little 4 yos who have only just started school to have groups of random parents with their preschoolers milling about the classroom, asking the teacher questions and looking at the resources - it would be chaos and very unsettling. Not to mention opening doors, unlocking things, the adults having to keep track of any children wandering out with the group of families or parents talking to the children unsupervised. Would you be happy with an unvetted parent being unattended with your child in the first week of Reception? They need a calm, settled environment with full adult attention, not strangers and smaller children coming in.

It's different if a child is joining mid-year and it's one family.

A show around out of school hours gives you chance to see the classroom and outdoor space and find out about the ethos of the teachers and structure of the curriculum.

Most of the schools I've worked in over the years do visits after school. It's much less disruptive to the children especially those in Reception who have just started and don't really need lots of random new people traipsing through their classroom.

Schools usually do several open mornings and they told you the dates weren't decided yet. The term has barely begun so give them chance.
Pretty much every school I know advertises the open days on their websites so check there (rather than taking up the receptionists time by phoning).
You also don't apply via the schools but via your council/borough so why you wanted to leave your details is baffling (edit - I see you were told too which seems crazy to me. Do the receptionists want to create more work for themselves 🤔)
Can you imagine if all potential parents did that. They'd have 100s of random email addresses on top of email addresses for parents of actual pupils.

I'd be very concerned if any adult was unattended with a child in school and would expect any visits to be supervised, regardless of how far into a term it was!!

Thank you all for your replies. I see your point, its just very different to the schools I have worked in (mainstream secondary and SEN) so I expected to be able to see the school in a working capacity. (Also, during visits parents have never pulled out resources or taken the teacher from the class for a chat!!)

I have mixed experience of this, with two schools. The first thought it odd we wanted to visit at all. When we turned up on the appointed day to meet the Head, he had left the building to go to a meeting. Still, we were shown round and had our fears confirmed about lack of diversity. The second school was really welcoming and we went round in the school day with the Head. This school was undersubcribed and out of catchment. DD went to the second. It worked really well for her.

I wasn't expecting to be shown around as a matter of urgency. I realise the term has just started and would be happy with a date in the future (however applications open on Friday so I would expect this to be forthcoming)
I also want to see the school directly which is not going to be arranged via the council's application process which is why I have left my details
I have worked in schools for 16 years and I always known them to accommodate visits on 1:1 basis so I am surprised at how different things seem to be in primary.

How? There's one teacher and potentially more than 60 parents and 30 kids visiting, how can they watch each parent and child interaction when they are all wandering around?

If you mean filing in and standing quietly at the back of the classroom, do you think 4 yos can cope with that? They are all going to be running up to the new adults and trying to play with the younger kids. That's before you factor in that the preschoolers will also be making noise and joining in with activities or grabbing books and toys.

Special schools are a very different environment and secondary a completely different kettle of fish again.

Were the 1:1 tours you are used to for the main entry point for school? I wonder if that is the exception not the norm, all the secondaries local to me do one or two big open evenings as their maim time to look at the school. They might also after that arrange 1:1s if people miss the main date, but it would be impossible otherwise. The primaries mostly do a either a few slots for daytime tours that you book into, sometimes with a evening or weekend slot too. Again 1:1 tours would be for in year admissions or those that missed the main tours.

With all due respect, can I ask what your experience in this field is as we seem to have vastly different ideas of school visits?
In my experience, small group or 1:1 visits are led by a (usually senior) member of staff and generally focus on the school grounds where they discuss curriculum, policies etc and might bob into classrooms for parents to have a quick look and get a feel for a school (how groups are divided and staffed, activities, behaviour management etc). At no point would there be 30-40 people observing a lesson!!

Really? Open days were pretty calm in our experience last year. Numerous sessions so numbers spread out, kids usually in nursery/pre school so only the odd baby/toddler who were well controlled (I wouldn't take the prospective child, they'd only fall in love with a school that had a nice slide or something). Talk in the hall with the head then a tour where you'd look through the windows or walk past an open door. If a school seemed as chaotic as your description I'd be a bit worried!

The secondary schools did open evenings but were also open to parents coming into school during the day. This didn't happen often (undersubscribed school with generally very low level of parental engagement - however when requested, it happened). This very well may be because of falling numbers and they were keen to get numbers in

I was a teacher for many years and very occasionally a family would come in mid year with a child and I'd step away from the children for a brief moment to say hello and introduce myself.

I would not have been happy to have had 30 families doing that over one term, especially a term as busy as the first term of Reception, or to have big groups coming into my classroom and distracting the children.

Well that's completely pointless. You might as well look at the school website. You're not seeing the classrooms, hearing from the teachers or anything, you're just walking around a building whilst the Head gives you a pitch based on what she/he would like to think their school is like.

Well what do you want then, no one should go in the classroom but you need to get in the classroom!? As a parent you can definitely get a better feel for a school walking around and hearing what's happening in classes than on a website, you'd usually be led by children and could ask them plenty of questions.

How are you asking the children questions without going into their classroom or distracting them?

Yanbu - I've been on 6 tours all during school hours

My experience was the reverse of yours - most secondaries absolutely did not want anyone visiting except for organised open days (which as a teacher, I could not attend), or open evenings.

I did get personal tours of primaries, but we moved so were visiting at an unusual point.

Don’t worry about the dates on which applications open. It’s not first come, first served, so as long as you have some opportunity to see the school (evening, weekend, organised open day) before the final deadline, that’s what matters.

Sadly, I think we have worked in very different schools. I would love the opportunity to say hello to 30 families who show an interest in their child's education.

We lived within a 10 min walk of 5 primary schools when DD was starting, and all of them did visits during the school day.

But tbh I don’t think it made a huge difference.

I’m not sure where you are that Reception applications are opening next week (ours don’t open til mid November) but we would normally do our open evenings once applications open and would publish dates about a month before. After school because it allows working parents to attend and also for tours of the classrooms and to go through how the day is structured, topics, phonics schemes etc and for the reception staff to be available to parents. We may then run a few small group tours during the day on request but we don’t always do this. With school funding as it is very few schools would have a senior member of staff available for lots of small group tours during the day - most schools I’ve seen/worked in SLT also have to teach. And it would be really disruptive in primary schools, where most rooms are in use during most of the day, and outside spaces often in use for PE or playtime.

"you'd usually be led by children"
Now I'm under no illusion these weren't well chosen kids who showed the school to its best, but having year 5/6 children form part of the presentation then proudly take you round the school and answer questions is a positive in my eyes. No one is marching up to a 5 year old and demanding to know their thoughts on the phonics scheme while they're in the role play area. Some curious glances from them as you walk past their room isn't going to ruin their education and gives parents a better insight to schools than an out of hours open day.

What are you meant to be looking at when school isn't on? The building? Tables? What are we meant to assess exactly?

It all really depends on classmates at the time. That's what makes or breaks the school day for my child. So it all seems redundant in a way.

The best performing school with horrible classmates is going to make life hell.
The worst performing school with lovely classmates is going to make it joyous.

I don't think the former situation is conducive to learning or overall wellbeing.

This is exactly what the primary tours were like that we went on and actually they suggested not to bring the children. Most started in the hall with a talk intro to the leadership and teaching structure bit of a sales pitch, although one said this isn't the team you'll see next year as we're all leaving and heaven knows if they'll have replacements!! (We didn't choose that one), followed by a smaller group walking tour lead by a senior member of staff, to see the facilities. One of them was at the end of the day so we went into the classrooms no children, the others were in the middle of the day, so we were shown classrooms mainly through windows and did pop into a music studio so the children could play for us which was lovely. We saw 4 in total. I think you might just be a little early, application opens Friday but doesn't close until January and priority now is settling the new reception children

The other thing to remember is that it’s not 30 visitors for a 30 entry school. I just looked up a county’s admission statistics - my children’s old school, for 60 places, has over 200 families placing that school on their form. Plus, presumably, more who considered it and didn’t like it enough to put it down.

I am not surprised that schools, particularly popular schools, don’t offer personal visits within the school day, given that type of number (other schools had significantly higher ‘placed on form’ to ‘actual size’ ratios).