Visiting primary schools

[Pandaghost]

Hi
My child is due to start reception next year. I have called 2 schools this week to ask to arrange a visit. One told me the dates arent ready and to leave my details (applications open soon so this seems v unorganised but new head started this term so may explain) and the other told me of an open community day taking place on a weekend.
AIBU to want to be shown round during the school day? Neither school has entertained this but I feel I would get a better feel for it than on a weekend with no kids.
I have previously worked in a secondary school which always had parents looking round during the school day so I know it is a done thing in high school but the primaries seem reluctant to do so.
Thanks!

You clearly have no clue about staffing levels in primary schools. Often, the only non-class based member of staff is the head herself. Not unusual for there to be a class based deputy or they double as SENCO. There simply aren’t the staff available to indulge 1-1 visits.

Well, yes. As I have clearly stated I am secondary/SEN. I asked for opinions as I don't have the expertise in this field. I haven't asked specifically for 1:1 visits: I have said I know they are offered in other settings. I am quite happy to attend open days but would rather they were in the school day. I dont think I am asking to be 'indulged' at all

I think the norm would be to start with the normal open day, then families who still had questions or needed to make more detailed arrangements (eg. Parents of a SEN child checking what accommodations can be offered), would arrange a private meeting or look round later on.

That would reduce the number of individual tours needed, as most would already have enough information to either feel confident applying or discount the school entirely.

They're obviously not keen on your first contact been a guided tour, as they don't have the capacity to do that for everyone.(at least 60 families of kids who go on to get places, but more if everyone visits multiple schools, could be 100's of families, half an hour with each could be weeks of school time when their not teaching/attending meetings or doing whatever they normally do).

I get that for you it's really big, but I think you need to cool your jets just a little bit. You don't need to have decided before the application opens, just wait and attend the open evenings when they have arranged them, if your still not sure, then ask to come back.

And would there not be a member of staff with responsibility for transition, as in other settings?

Thanks for your reply. I think this makes a lot of sense. I am off work for the next few weeks (post op) so was hoping to get a head start but I think I will need to hang fire!

I’ve been a governor in a couple of primaries and we never did 1:1 visits - too time consuming and takes staff away from their job.

What are the 30 children needing your time doing whilst you're talking to 30+ sets of parents?

We did open evenings as during the school day was too disruptive.

No there wouldn’t. In a small primary it would probably be shared by the HT and EYFS lead in amongst a myriad of other responsibilities.

You said you would say hello to parents briefly and my comment was in response to that. I wouldn't need to change my lesson to accommodate me acknowledging somebody looking in my classroom so the pupils would be continuing with their activities. It must be very draining teaching children who require such intense adult support
.

Yes, you are right, helping 30 children barely out of toddler age to adjust to the expectations of school is very draining and having multiple strangers coming into the classroom in the first few weeks (as PP above suggests this might be up to 200 families in an oversubscribed school) is not at all conducive to providing them with the support they need.

I am glad to know that when my daughter is at school, her teacher and the TA are focused on the children they are teaching, not on being a meet-and-greet for multiple families a day who may or may not choose that school.

I am also very grateful for the time they volunteer outside school hours to welcome prospective parents and tell them about the learning they do and the ethos they create in their classroom.

But at no point have I asked for 200 people to be taken to individual classes. I have repeatedly said I would be happy with an open day and would not expect to chat to teachers who were in front of a class.
We are going round in circles. Thanks for your insight, you have made your thoughts very clear and I dont see what else you could add to the discussion

Wow, I hope you're not so rude in real life. If so, I wish your child's teachers the best of luck.

The schools will have several open days (or evenings, maybe Saturday mornings too).
You're just asking too early.
Some schools will still be deciding the days to do them.
Check the websites of the schools regularly because they will advertise the dates on there (or if you walk by the schools regularly you will probably see banners outside with the dates on).
And just chill a bit 🙂

Rude for thanking you for your time and ending a conversation that is repetitive and we have both had our say in? OK 👍

Responsibility for transition into Reception would fall to the Reception class teacher.

A real difference between primary and secondary school/ SEN schools is that there are no, or very few, staff who do not also have class responsibilities.

In a typical 1 form entry primary, the only non-class based adults would be the Office Manager, possibly an admin assistant, and the Head. The Deputy and the SENCo would also be class teachers, either full time (most usual) or maybe 3-4 days per week. All subject leads, key stage leads etc would be class teachers, with the usual one half day of non-contact time. In some schools there might be a pastoral lead, often a TA with part-time class support responsibilities as well.

Even in a 3-form entry primary, it would be normal for Deputy Head and SENCo to teach part time / do PPA cover. Transition responsibilities would fall to the EYFS lead, who would also be a full time or almost full-time Reception teacher (sometimes with 1 extra PPA session per week).

We applied for school for DS1 in late 2020/early 2021, so there were no visits or open days at all. We had to make our decisions based on the websites and a few responses to email queries I'd made (DS1 was going through the assessment process - now confirmed - for autism). Not ideal, but it's doable.

For DS2 we were able to visit and it was actually our first chance to see inside the school, so we took it! DS1 (Y1 at the time) was very excited to see us visit his class but then apparently very upset when we had to leave.

Our school has 90 kids per year. We can apply to up to 4 schools in our council, so that would be an awful lot of potential parents if they all visited every school!

@Pandaghost out of curiosity I checked the website for my daughter's old primary (plus it's "sister school").
The tours start in October and run through to November.

That's really helpful. Thanks! I will keep an eye on the website for open days

Primary school open mornings/afternoons in our town are in October (yes during the school day. They don't ask the teachers to work out of hours!).

Bear in mind this week is the first full week of Reception and many are still doing settling in sessions not normal school days yet. It's a busy time at schools.

The deadline in England for primary school applications is January so open days in October/November are fine (the applications are not first come, first served).

Sorry, I've not had time to read the other replies so sorry if I'm repeating anything.

I wouldn't necessarily think it unorganised of the school to still be plotting out open day dates which work for them (in terms of staffing, cover etc). It's only week 2. You have until January to apply. Most schools won't even start open sessions until October, even though the application process opens before that. It's not first come first served, so you'd gain nothing from an early application anyway.

The school who said they'd get back to you may well plan visits in the school day anyway, as most do. My own school offer both day and evening tours, to accomodation working parents. I totally agree with you though that it's better to see the school in the day, if you can.

Have you asked the other school if they'll do a tour in the daytime for you? Just say the weekend open day isn't a convenient date for you and you would really love to see their school. Most schools are desperate to fill their spaces these days, due to falling birth rates meaning many are now not operating at full capacity in the younger year groups. I'd be amazed if any school turned down such a request. My own school are always open to showing people around on individual tours if our scheduled open sessions don't suit them.

It's not unusual at all for schools to run open sessions during the day for the new Reception intake, so people can see the classroom in action. As a Reception teacher of over 15 years, I can confirm that this is not disruptive for the teachers or unsettling for the children. We simply explain we're going to have some visitors and the session will take place while the children are accessing the continuous provision ('choosing'), rather than a carpet session (that would be a nightmare to have an audience for and would feel very goldfish bowl esque for the poor children).

There's nothing unsafe about it at all. All visitors wear a visitor lanyard and are taken around in small groups by a member of SLT. They're not let out of their sight so it's definitely not a case of strangers roaming around leaving doors open etc. It also doesn't happen in their first week of Reception. Our tours are always October or November.

This is a very normal situation which schools deal with every year. Each school will run it differently, but we have a maximum of 4 families per group, per tour. Within the hour, we'll have 3 small groups pop in for about 10 minutes each before they're taken off to see the rest of the school. We run about 3 official tours throughout October/November during the day, and one in the evening to accommodate working parents. This tour is much larger, with about 24 spaces available (8 families per group) as less safeguarding risks.

Most children find it exciting to have visitors. Any who are anxious will remain at an activity with the TA, away from the general hubbub of the visitors.

Having read the replies now, I'm quite surprised at how many people think a daytime visit would be unusual (in their experience) or that a request for an individual tour, if the dates/times don't suit, would be an unreasonable request.

In my own personal experience, it's really not a problem (well, it hasn't been in any of the schools I've worked in). Obviously some schools are more welcoming that others, but any who refuse to accommodate a daytime tour because it's "not convenient" would be a red flag for me. Where I am, we pride ourself on building positive relationships with parents before their child even starts with us. A request for a daytime tour would absolutely not be a problem where I work.

It's a huge exaggeration to imply schools would need to do 60+ individual tours. We run both daytime and evening tours, which are always popular. We perhaps have about 6 families maximum each year who request an individual tour because the dates and times don't suit. It's really not that onerous.

I think so much here depends on the school context.

In my area, in an oversubscribed outstanding primary, the amount of parents wanting tours could easily be 5x the number of places available. This would be a big drain on SLT time and it wouldn't be feasible for all of these parents to see classes.

Other schools with falling pupil numbers may be keen to do more to "sell" the school to prospective parents.

I get that. However, I think that's part of the reason why I personally find many outstanding schools very 'business like' and non-welcoming. I much prefer the personal touch and family vibe over an Ofsted rating.

I do understand they wouldn't be able to accommodate hundreds of 1-1 tours, but it's not like they'd openly advertise them. Most people who are interested in the school and wish to visit will book on the scheduled tours. The amount of people who actually request an individual tour is going to be fairly minimal, in reality (mainly because many people wouldn't even think to do this or realise it's possible).

Personally, if I couldn't make the tours and the school couldn't accommodate me another time, or refused a daytime tour as it's not convenient for them, I'd think they're not the right school for me and my family. Maybe these schools don't need to 'sell' themselves, due to their Ofsted grading, but I would find it very off-putting.