Should state primary be doing more? And what should we do as parents?

[Wildwild]

DD has just finished year 1 at our local primary school. There’s loads we love about it, it’s at the top of our road and the catchment is really small so all her friends live within a five minute walk. This means it has a really great community feel. Her teachers have been lovely, she’s got a nice group of friends and seems happy there. For what it’s worth, the school received an outstanding Ofsted rating a few years ago which was maintained just before Christmas when they were inspected.

Whenever I have got any feedback (usually at parents evening) the teachers have said that she is performing well above average. Her year 1 teacher said she was so far ahead she could in theory skip Y2 and just go into key stage 2 but they’re not allowed to do that (and I’d hate her to be singled out from her peers). Apparently their main concern is that she’ll be bored and become disengaged.

But nobody is telling me how I can resolve this. They give the odd bit of homework sporadically on Google classroom but she does it in 30 seconds and asks for more. They never send home spellings or times tables. My mum (ex primary teacher) just keeps telling me I should move her to private but I can’t afford it.

I was wondering whether I should go to see the new class teacher at the beginning of term and ask her about how the school differentiate brighter children so they’re being challenged and what we as parents can do to support her. But I’m really conscious of being “that” parent!

Any teachers around who can advise? Am I over thinking and should just go with the flow or should I be doing something more? Should I get her a private tutor to give her new challenges or will she end up further ahead? Should I turn up at the local prep school and get her to read a copy of the Sunday Times to them and see if they can help with the fees?! (This last one is light hearted)

Imagine there was a swim school, with some kids that can already swim and some that can’t. Swim school just focuses on children blowing bubbles or taking it in turns to swim a few strokes.
‘they all catch up anyway’,
‘it’s good to keep them practising’,
‘well how good are they at getting changed or showered’
’the social side of a group is also important’
’they teach swimming differently now - it doesn’t matter if a previous technique works just as well or even better, this is the only way someone should do it’
’be grateful your child can already swim’

That is school for some children. For some, ‘it’s ok, now we are going to put you in the group that can swim’, even though they clearly need extra help/time to develop that skill.
Most kids want to learn - some have their passion for learning clipped at school for years and years, others are forced at a pace that puts them off and makes school a struggle for years and years.

I agree with everyone who is suggesting a musical instrument. This worked really well for us in a similar situation. The point is not the musical stuff itself but the experience of not being immediately competent at something and having to learn how to practise and persevere.

Sorry, I didn’t mean you ‘shouldn’t’ be teaching that, she’s your child and you can (obviously!) teach her what you like! I just wanted to highlight that particularly the multiplication and division were many years ahead of her age and that (in my opinion) teaching bright children mental calculation strategies is a better thing to do so they don’t become reliant on written methods. I have many times tried to teach kids to do things like +99 mentally and they just aren’t interested because they can use column method and initially that seems easier to them. So in the lesson they’ll do things like do the written calculation on a whiteboard or lightly in pencil and rub out or even imagine a column method in their head, and pretend they’ve done it mentally. But with a bit of practice of course +99 mentally is very easy (and quicker than writing anything down) but initially it requires a bit more effort!

also teaching telling the time at home is in my view essential, those who are taught it just at school for a week each year never really click with it. At the start of the unit each year the ones who haven’t practiced for a year are right back to the start.

State education isn’t free, it costs the tax payer quite a bit and teachers aren’t volunteers (we do get paid). However, state schools provide a service that sort of suits the majority so if you want much more, you will need to do it outside school.

Reading lots and a big variety is probably the best thing you can do. If you want more of a challenge then learning an instrument, a language or a sport outside school could also be fun for her.

Get her learning an instrument and lots and lots of reading. Take her to interesting places, let her curiosity take the lead. Not sure there's anything to be gained by pushing her onto maths that's a year or two above where her class are now.

Ha, when S2 was in KS1 I was reading something about working on telling the time and thinking "oh yes, he's been able to do that reliably for a few weeks now" before realising that I was reading the bumph from S1's class, three years older!

Our karate students never know what the time is because the clock is Roman analogue. Two of them are quite bright, too.

Also agree with this. DD2 found primary school quite easy. Learning to play the piano and having to practice (almost) every day taught her to preserve at things, so that when eventually school work in some subjects became difficult (and this will eventually happen to everyone at some point, even if it takes to post grad stage!) she'd already experienced working through frustration and difficulties. She had a wonderful piano teacher who would say "practice makes better" which was so much more useful to remember than practice makes perfect as iit freed DD up from thinking that everything must be perfect. A child who thinks that everything must be perfect all of the time will start to suffer later.

Supply teacher and tutor here, so it has been a few years since I have had my own class. It sounds like your daughter is a bright and enthusiastic learner and is enjoying school. All good, and her teacher will find her contribultions in class and her ability to support her peers invaluable. She may not always be challenged, but she won't be bored because she will be kept busy, either with an additional challenge or the 'reward' to help others (they love doing this). Under the currentl curriculum, additional challenge in maths is usually, through explaining a problem rather than upping the complexity of method. There is a big emphasis on understanding why in maths rather than following a rote method. I would not be expecting column methods or times tables (except 2s, 5s, and 10s) before year 3, but reasoning problems and bar models are definitely in the year 2 curriculum. As for English, she will be able to express herself beyond the expectation without being held back - she might just not yet know the terminology or the appropriate punctuation. Unless you are looking at grammar schools, she is fine just how she is. And if you are in an 11+ area, I would just focus on her reading and deeper understanding of what you read together and by year 4, start to introduce some of the children's classics and Bond or CGP books.

"My mother thinks the state sector has gone to pieces in the last decade and is failing everyone including the most able who get overlooked whilst the teachers worry about the myriad of real problems."

She is right in many ways in that the workload has increased, the curriculum is congested, the differentiated worksheets have gone, yet the (human) resources have been depleted. There are very few whole class TAs beyond year 1 and children are starting school with poor communciation skills and just not able to access the demanding curriculum. This means teachers are having to spend more time supporting struggling groups and, inevitably, those that can work independently, largely do. It really is a 1:30 ratio (or a min of 1:25), where as a private school would have 1:10 minimum.

Thank you, this is an interesting take. Both reception and Y1 teachers have told me she enjoys helping the other children and has a mature understanding about some things being easier for her. I was a bit worried about her coming across as patronising and showing off to the less able children but they assure me it’s not the case and she’s very kind and doesn’t make it obvious that she knows more than them. Good to hear that this is a thing as I was worried it was odd!

We are in catchment for a girls grammar but I’m reticent about it because she has a younger sister. What do you do if the younger one doesn’t get in?

I would do 2 things: encourage her to read as many books as possible and find ways to build learning experiences into her daily life. So ask het to help with the gardening. While you're doing that you can be learning about worms for example, or obviously about how seeds germinate and grow.

Cookery is a great source of knowledge and skills on how to cook and also nutrition. It could also be connect with the gardening if you grow veg.

Go on walks and talk about whatever you see. You could have the Merlin bird identification app and observe and learn about birds. I live in a very built up town centre and spotted a red kite from outside my house today!

Or maybe learn some computer programming? There are websites aimed at kids who want to learn. Although I imagine this might take rather a lot of supervision.

If you can, take some museum trips or places of historical interest. Generally if it it is something you are enthusiastic about, it's going to be easier to enthuse your kid.

I had much the same dilemma. As it happens DC1 did not pass the 11+. They then had to go to the local comp which seemed fine when we viewed it but nothing amazing. DC1 was very very happy there and got on very well and was the highest performing A Level student in the history of the school - 4 x Astar. Has now graduated witb a 1st from a top uni.

DC1 clearly should have got into the grammar but I often think they may not have done so well because they would not have stood out so much. The comp really made an effort to give DC1 extended work and the teachers constantly asked at parents evenings if their extra challenges were enough. Also, the grammar school had classes of 30 for A Level and the comp had classes of 2, 4 or 6 for their subjects.

Just let her enjoy being a kid! Read lots with her. Buy her age appropriate magazines. Play maths games. Teachers should though be able to stretch kids within each year group with problem solving etc, that’s what Greater Depth is all about. You could speak to the SENCO and afk what provision is put in place for gifted kids. But seriously, just relax and help her to be a kind and well-rounded human being with lots of outside interests.

Nothing to stop you going through times tables with her or setting her some homework. Suggest she keeps a journal. Buy her plenty of books and you can get primary workbooks for DC. My DD knew all of her times tables by the age of 6.

What phonics is she learning?
does she know all her sounds , Di- graphs, tri- graphs is it whole class phonic or colour band groups it is not ‘done’ in yr 2 unless you have progressed and are in the comprehension/ reading groups

I don’t know how they’re teaching it but apparently there’s a carpet session that they can’t differentiate for.

No. But you could do times tables with her at home. Or read more grown up books. My eldest was reading Harry Potter independently in Y1.

Agree with this. Having something that she will struggle with at first, and will require work and determination to improve at is very important, and will set her up well for school in the future when it does get harder.

There's nothing wrong with being a bit pushy! I hope you manage to speak to them and all be on the same page. And music, a language or similar would be great for her, as others have suggested.

@Wildwild They probably won’t differentiate for phonics but if she can read, so what? She’ll just pass her phonics screening. Hurrah!!!

To me your teachers sound poor. My DD started learning the recorder in y1 and was in a recorder group. They did little plays (YR upwards) and dd had to learn her part - August born. Eventually dd got a place at Oxford and another dd went to Cambridge for maths. The maths dd didn’t go up a year or skip the curriculum. The teachers gave her much greater depth within the topics. Yes, effort required but it’s vital.

They don’t spend all their time at school either. We had library books and thank God we had no regimented phonics! DD just lapped up words and memorized them. Maths dd could read before she started at school and a couple of others could too. Yes, they did comprehend what they were reading. We had loads of books and poems for breadth of vocabulary.

DD really enjoyed music (violin and piano y3) and orchestras. The school always said what topics were and we took her to see things based around them. It’s giving dc a broad education but don’t accept they cannot teach to much greater depth. They can.

There’s a lot of handwringing about bright children being bored at school but I’ve never come across it and can’t imagine it for a child. Possible exceptions might be those neurodivergent children who are really operating on a completely different plane academically, usually in one or two areas, but it doesn’t sound like your DD is that.

I also find it very odd that her teacher would suggest that she has no learning objectives and was concerned that she might disengage at some unspecified future point - surely that’s as good as telling you they are an incompetent teacher. I have a bright DC and he had learning objectives just like everyone else - they were just more advanced ones.

From my own experience I’d echo the caution about using column methods for addition and multiplication - maths is taught very differently now. For this and with everything there is nothing at all to be gained from pushing her ahead with the primary curriculum when there is just so much opportunity for stretch and expansion both within and outside it.

If she’s not naturally sporty you should be focusing on that - encourage her to do park run, sign her up for football - and definitely get her learning an instrument or a language (for fun!).

I’ve largely ignored my DS’s primary experience - he is happy there and has great friends and if he finishes his work early he gets to read his own books or draw a picture (which he loves). Don’t create problems where there are none.

I was bored as hell throughout the first couple of years of infant school. My mum taught me to read before school but the teachers ignored this. I used to smuggle in books and sit on them!

Sometimes I come across students like me and I let them read the books (assuming they've done whatever extension work I have available). They're older but with mixed ability classes, inevitably some kids are baffled while other ones are bored. The teaching profession likes to pretend you can differentiate your way out of this but in practice it's pretty difficult unless you have a fantastic array of extra resources and highly motivated students with the maturity to understand that a class tends to progress at the pace of the slowest.

Year 1s do not have that kind of maturity, so send them in with a reading book.

Hard agree. Just let them read read read! Both mine are avid readers just had flashback fb memory from hol 10 years ago Dd aged 6 sitting by a lake deep in a book. At 16 she’s reading classics in the garden. We are both readers though.

Both dds excel at Eng lit, languages and humanities subjects they find them really easy they just “flow”. Am sure all the reading they did as children helped with this.